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to the Treat received from the Admiralty, to whom was referred the "Denmarke, Lord High Admiral of England, together
Pritoners Confideration of a Letter from Stephen Mafon to the "with the Inftructions given them by his Royal High-
Lord Wharton, relating to the ill Ufage of English Pri" nefs for their better Government and Conduct in the
foners in France, and their long Detention there, through "Execution of the Truft committed to them. And they
the Negligence of the Commiffioners for Exchange of "acquainted their Lordships, "That, upon any Accident
Prifoners not fending Tranfports duly for them, as that might require further or more particular Direc-
followeth; (videlicet,)
"tion, their Courfe was, to make Application to the
"Cabinet Council, and the Earl of Nottingham Pria-
cipal Secretary of State."

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"Their Lordships muft obferve to the Houfe, that "it hath appeared, that, by the Neglect of the Duty of fome of the Mafters of the Tranfport Veffels, and particularly, of one Gibson, and contrary to Bonds given not to bring over any Paffengers but Prifoners, "feveral Perfons have been brought over in the faid "Tranfport Veffels, out of France, who have been found, by the Examination of another Committee of the "Lords of this Houfe, to have been concerned and trufted in the Management of the Scotch Confpiracy."

"That their Lordships, on Confideration of the faid
"Letter, have been informed, on the Oaths of feveral
Perfons, who have lately been Prifoners in France,
and who fome of them purchafed their Liberty at
great Rates, "That feveral English Prifoners there,"
through long Imprisonment, and the Hardships they
"underwent therein, put themfelves into the French
King's Service, and into French Privateers, alledging
they would rather do fo than die in Prifon; and
fome others had likewife done fo, had they not
been furnished with Money by one of the Informants,
who, in near Three Months he was Prifoner at Di-
"nant, believes there died there more than Sixty Prifo-
"ners;" and by another of them, "That he had an Aç-
count, that near Three Hundred died there in Four
Months, between the Return of the Tranfport Vef-
"fels;" and by another of them, "That in August laft,
"when he was a Prifoner at Martineco, there were
between Seventy and Eighty Ships, belonging to Her
Majefty's Subjects, that had been taken by the French,
and about Two Hundred Prifoners."

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"That their Lordships have likewife heard the Commiffioners for Exchange of Prisoners, to the faid Complaints; who, in Anfwer to them, faid, "They never had any Complaint made to them by any Prifoner, after his Return, of bad Ufage in France; nor did they ever hear that any of them gave Money for "his Ranfom; but, upon Notice given by One of their Agents (who had frequent Orders to inquire into the Ufage of Prifoners), that the French did not make Ulage of Prifoners), that the French did not make fufficient Allowance to their Priforders; the faid Com

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They produced the Inftructions they gave to, and the Securities they took of, the Masters of, the Tranfports they employed, to provide good Veffels and fufficient Entertainment aboard for the French and English Prifoners, without demanding any Thing of them for the fame. And their ufual Courfe, in the Exchange of Prifoners, was, to return Man for "Man, and Quality for Quality; and to bring Home "firft the Sick, Wounded, and Aged, who could leaft "endure the Hardships of Imprifonment; then those "that had been longeft Prisoners; in the next Place, "those that had been taken in Her Majefty's Ships;

and after them, thofe taken in Merchant-men; and, "in the laft Place, the Men taken in Privateers. At "the Time of this Examination, they faid, "There "were few more than Two Hundred of the English "Prifoners in France, who were then fent for; and that "there were now more than Two Thoufand French Pri"foners in England."

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To which Report the Houfe agreed; and ordered as followeth:

"poral in Parliament affembled, that the Report made
"It
It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Tem-
"this Day, from the Lords Committees, (to whom was
"referred the Confideration of a Letter from Stephen
"Mafon to the Lord Wharton, relating to the ill Ufage
"of English Prifoners in France, and their long Deten-
"ners for Exchange of Prifoners, not fending Tranf-
❝tion there, through the Negligence of the Commiffio-
ports duly for them) fhall be laid before Her Ma-
jefty."

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2. Refolved, That it is the Opinion of the Comit"tee, That the Queen be addreffed to, that whenever there fhall be a Neceffity of fending a Fleet into The "Mediterranean, the Coaft and Trade here may not "be left fo naked and unguarded as it was the last "Year."

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Hereupon the Order following was made; (vide
licet,)

"It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Tem-
poral in Parliament affembled, That the Two Refolu-
tions, reported this Day from the Lords Committees
appointed to confider of the Papers received from the
Admiralty-office, in relation to Sir CloudeЛly Shovell's
"Expedition into The Mediterranean, fhall be, by the
"faid Committee, drawn into an Addrefs, to be pre-
"fented to Her Majefty; and alfo the Refolutions of
the House, upon Report from the faid Committee, re-
lating to Vice Admiral Greydon and Jamaica; and
"that they confider what fhall be offered to Her Ma-
They laid their Commiffion before their Lordships," jefty, by Way of Addrefs, upon the Report of the
which is from his Royal Highness Prince George of "Committee who were appointed to confider of the
VOL. XVII.
"Petition

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6 U

ranean.

Addrefs con. cerning the Reprefentation

of the Houfe

about the

"Petition of Charles Hore and others, relating to the
victualing Her Majefty's Navy Which Committee is
"to meet To-morrow, at Ten a Clock in the Forendon;
"and report to the House."

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" on us, but depart from their Pretences of Refpect to
Your Majefty, and cenfure Your Conduct, in affif-
"ting our Examination, as if You had thereby done
an Injury to Your Prerogative. We are therefore
obliged, in Duty to Your Majefty, as well as Juftice
to ourselves, farther to explain the Grounds on which

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The Duke of Somerset reported an Addrefs, drawn we have acted; and to produce Precedents, to fhew

by the Committee, upon, the Reprefentation of the

Houfe of Commons prefented to Her Majefty; and
alfo the feveral Precedents cited.

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Which was read, and agreed to, as followeth:

"May it please Your moft Excellent Majefty, "We, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliaof Commons, ment affembled, found ourselves obliged (though with great Unwillingness) to make an humble ReprefentaLords taking ❝tion to Your Majefty, on the Eighteenth of January tions of Perlaft, of the Injustice done to us by the Houfe of Com"mons; and it is with the utmoft Reluctance we are "brought to give Your Majefty a Second Trouble upon "the like unhappy Occafion.

the Examina

fons concer

ned in the

Scotch Con.
Spiracy.

we have done nothing unwarranted by the Practice "of our Ancestors.

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They continue to complain of Two of our Orders; "One of which, they fay, was to remove Your Majefty's "Prifoners out of Your Cuftody into our own; and the "other, to commit their Examination folely to a Coin"mittee of Seven Lords, chofen and appointed by our"felves.

"We know not by whom a Committee of Lords
can be chofen, but by the Houfe of Lords; nor can
"there be any Thing more Parliamentary, and more
«tion, than referring it to a Committee.
proper for the Difpatch and Secrecy of an Examina-

"This appears by our Silence, after the Addrefs of
"the Houle of Commons prefented to Your Majesty
"the Twenty-firft of February: For, though that Paper
"be in Effect but one continued Mifreprefentation of
"our Words and our Proceedings; yet we thought
"ourfelves fecure in Your Majefty's great Judgement,
"which would difcern where the Truth lay, through
"all the Colours made Ufe of to difguife it: And we
"were willing to hope, that a Moderation, which was
"fo little deferved, could not but have a good Effect
the House of Commons. But the Votes of the
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"Nine and Twentieth of February, which they laid be-
"fore Your Majefty, have convinced us of our Mistake,«
"and made it impoffible for us to flatter ourselves longer
"with any fuch Expectation. They continue to mifre-
"prefent our Proceedings, and to folicit the Throne

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"This was practifed by both Houses of Parliament "in the Year 1678 and 1679; nor was it objected to «either, that they took the Examination folely to themfelves, though the Committee of the Houfe of Commens was, in the Stile of their own Books, a Com«mittee of Secrecy.

"The Lords, the Commons, and the Privy Council, «had that Plot under Examination at the fame Time: "Yet there was no interfering of Jurifdictions; the Papers and the Witneffes were conveyed to one another, as "there was Occafion, without any Difputes; none of them stopped or delayed the Inquiries of the others, «but concurred in promoting them.

"We might have expected that, when the House of "Commons charged us a Second Time with violating "Your Royal Prerogative, and the known Laws of the "Land, they would have fpecified what Branch of the

against us; and thereby put us upon an abfolute Ne-
"ceffity of doing ourselves Juftice, in laying a true State
"of Things before Your Majefty. When we obferve,"
that the First Addrefs of the Houfe of Commons was
"ordered the next Day after we entered upon the
"Examination of Boucher; that, on the Third of Febru-
ary, when we appointed a Day for taking the Papers
relating to the Confpiracy into Confideration, the
"Houfe of Commons appointed a Committee to draw
"up the Addrefs against us, prefented to Your Majesty
on the One and Twentieth, which was the Day our
"Committee reported Keith's Examination; and that
their Votes of the Nine and Twentieth came from
"a Committee appointed to confider of the Papers
communicated to them, the fame Day we made our
"Addrefs to Your Majefty to iffue out a Proclamation
"for encouraging the Discovery of the Cypher of the
"Gibberish Letters (though they had made a Compli-
"ment to Your Majefty on their reading thofe Papers,

and had laid afide all Thoughts of them for Three
"Weeks together); we cannot without great Con-
"cern reflect upon the unfeasonableness of these Ap-

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Prerogative we had infringed, or what Law, Statute, or Ufage, we had broken. Whenever they think fit to be more particular in the Charge, we fhall be very 66 ready with our Answers.

"We fhall always contend with the Houfe of Commons in Zeal for Your Majesty's Honour and Safety; "but we fhall never pretend to be meritorious in giving up what we know to be the Rights of Parliaments: And we are fure Your Majesty understands and loves the Conftitution of the English Government too well, to approve of fuch a Prefent. And therefore we must again beg Leave to infift on our former Reprefentation, as well founded in every Particular.

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plications. What can be more likely to prevent the
"Difcovery of this dangerous Confpiracy, than a Dif-
agreement among thofe who thould unite their En-
"deavours in affifting Your Majefty to fearch to the Bot-
"tom of it? What can more encourage Offenders to an
"We have no Cause to be forry to hear it has been
"cbftinate Silence, than the Profpect of having the Ex-"fo univerfally well received, fince we are fure it can-
"aminations interrupted by an unhappy Breach be-
"tween the Two Houfes? And what can give greater
Security to Your Majesty's Enemies, than to fee a
"Foundation laid for fuch Difputes, as will for ever
"put an End to all Parliamentary Inquiries into their
"Defigns? The Gentlemen of the Houfe of Commons
"have carried this Point fo far, that, rather than fuffer
"us to proceed quietly in fearching into the Bottom of
this dangerous Conspiracy, they do not only reflect"

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"have, of ill Language that has paffed between the "Two Houfes, becaufe it could not have been agreea"ble to Your Majefty.

"excufable in that unhappy Houfe of Commons, than "their refufing to fill up their Body, and compleat their "Representation?

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"We must own, we never fearched our Books for "that Purpofe; and we believe that, if ever the Com"mons ufed the like before, our Ancestors thought it" "unbecoming them to return it; and we think it most proper to be forgotten.

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"Thefe Beginnings are very dangerous. It is not "eafy to forefee how far fuch a Practice may be carried,. what Effects it may have upon the Boroughs that or what Effects it "fuffer the prefent Wrong, or upon others who may appréhend the like Ufage. And who can fay but, in After-times, an ill Prince may take Advantage of "We cannot think that any Expreffions (by what"fuch Precedents, and think himfelf juftified in withfoever Zeal infpired) that are not fuitable to the De-holding his Writs from fome, by as good Law as the

cency which is due from One House of Parliament to
another, can fhew Refpect to Your Majefty, or add
any Force to their Arguments.

"We do not comprehend what is meant by their
faying, we did “
appropriate to the Houfe of Lords

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"Commons can fhew for pretending to ftop them from "iffuing to others?

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"The Commons have made Three Addresses to Your Majefty upon this Occafion; yet have not ftated the Matter in Difpute fairly in any One of them. The

only, the Name of a Parliament." There is no Foun-plain Matter of Fact is this: Boucher, Ogleby, &c. dation for that Charge in any Word of our Repre- "being feized by the Cuftom-houfe Officers, on the. fentation; nor was there any Occafion for fuch an Coaft of Suffex, as they landed from France, were "Affertion in the Controverfy between us. Both Houses "fent for, to be brought to Town by Meffengers: "are alike interested in the Point we maintain: We "The Lords, having refolved to examine thofe Perfons "are fure the Houfe of Commons have claimed and "themfelves, ordered the Meffengers to bring thèm to "exercifed fuch a Power of Examination and Commit"the Houfe, and committed them to the Black Rod, in ment as the Lords infift upon; and we are well "order to their Examination. The Queftion is, Whe"affured that, on proper Occafions, every future "ther this Proceeding of the Houfe of Lords was a "Houfe of Commons will do the like again. So that, "Breach of any Law, or contrary to the Cuftom of let the Gentlemen of the prefent House of Commons "Parliaments? We afferted, it was not; and, as we "be as liberal as they pleafe in renouncing their own humbly apprehend, we proved our Affertion by unde"Right, and as much difpleafed as they think fit with the "niable Reafons; and we affured Your Majefty we could "Houfe of Lords for not following their Example, we justify it by Precedents. have this Comfort, that Your Majefty is too equitable to "think amifs of us, for defending our Parliamentary Rights; and we are fure of having every House of "Commons, that fhall fit hereafter, of our Side, as "well as every Englishman who values the Constitution of his Country.

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"When the Gentlemen of the Houfe of Commons act according to the Meatures taken in thofe Times, they ought not to be offended if they are remembered by the Lords. If they will take upon themselves to ftop the illuing out Your Majesty's Writs for filling their Houfe, and that in feveral Places, and for a long Time, whereby they make themselves an im"perfect Reprefentation, which is a Wound to the “Constitution, a Wrong to the Boroughs who have a legal Right to fend Reprefentatives, and an Injustice to Your Majefty, who has an undoubted Title to the "Service and Attendance of all the Members; can they "wonder, or ought they to complain, if we prefume to "tell Your Majefty, that very few Things were lefs

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"It appears by our Records, that we have, at all "Times when we thought it expedient for the Public Good, not only taken Prifoners out of the Cuftody "of Meffengers (which is but a temporary Confinement, "in order to the examining Perfons, or while they are "under Examination); but taken them out of any "other Cuftody, and put them fometimes into the "Cuftody of Your Majefty's Officers attending the "Houfe of Peers, fometimes removed them from One "Prifon to another, as the Houfe thought moft fafe and proper for their Examination.

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"Perfons condemned, and under Sentence of Death, may be moft properly called the Prifoners of the "Crown, when their Lives and Eftates, as well as Li"berties, are entirely at Mercy; yet the House of "Lords has fent for feveral in thofe Circumstances' "from the fartheft Parts of England to be examined.

"We could produce Precedents in all Times when any Thing of this Nature has been before the House; "the most ancient Records furnishing the clearest and "moft frequent Inftances of the Jurifdiction of the "Lords, in examining, trying, and punithing, of great "Offenders.

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"But we shall at prefent confine ourselves to the Proceedings in refpect to the Popish Plot in the Reign of Your Majefty's Royal Uncle (except in fome few Inftances "in both Houses, as well before as after that Time);" "not only becaufe that was the laft Confpiracy that "fell under a Parliamentary Examination, but because both Houfes of Parliament entered into the Inquiry "with equal Zeal.

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"If the Commons had confidered our Addreffes of the 29th of January or the Fifteenth of February, "" they would have found in them no Contradictions or "Counter-orders to Your Majefty, with which they "charge us. We were informed of feveral Papers "that had not been communicated to us: Thofe we "defired; and we received them by Your Majefty's "Command; and have, we hope, made Ufe of them "for Your Majefty's Service and the Public Safety. "We have had the Happiness, that our Zeal has been "more than once approved by Your Majefty; and we "leave the Commons to justify their own Coldness and "Indifference in a Point of fuch high Concern.

"If we look back on the Steps the Commons have "made in this whole Matter, they are fuch as will hardly be believed hereafter: And we can defire "nothing more, for our Juftification, than that our Proceedings and theirs may be compared.

"When the Papers relating to this Confpiracy were "laid before them, they contented themselves with reading them; and, without offering any Advice or ***Affiftance, gave Your Majefty Thanks for laying the Papers before them, and expreffed their Satisfaction "in Your Majefty's wife Conduct and great Care of "Your People. This was certainly juftly due to Your Majefty's prudent Administration; but was not all "that might have been reasonably expected from a "House of Commons, when Your Majefty had laid "before them the Account of fuch a dangerous Con"fpiracy.

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"Thus the Matter refted for feveral Weeks: And "when at last the Houfe of Commons thought fit to "take up a Second Time the Confideration of those Papers, instead of doing what we hoped, and the Kingdom expected, from them, all they did was, to "find new Caufe of Difpleafure against the Lords; to "complain of what Your Majefty had done; to folicit "You to re-affume the juft Exercife of Your Preroga"tive; and to defire You to ftop our proceeding, as "of dangerous Confequence, and what might tend to "the Subverfion of the Government.

"This Conduct feems very unaccountable; and when "they had not thought fit to pafs any Judgement on "the Confpiracy, it is hard that the Inquiry into it fhould be fo feverely cenfured.

"The Commons confine what we fpoke in general "Terms, of the fatal Confequences that have happened

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"But we are furprized that the Houfe of Commons "fhould fingle out the Inftance of a Revolution in a "neighbouring Country, where the Clergy and the de Commons were prevailed upon, by the Management "of the Court, to carry their Refentments against the Lords fo far, that they delivered up the Authority of "the Lords, the Freedom of the People, and made a "total Alteration of the Government.

"We cannot imagine what is meant by calling this Treachery of the Commons and Clergy, in betraying "the Liberties of their Country, their uniting in the Public Defence; nor can we conceive how this comes to be "mentioned on this Occafion. We hope there is no "Danger of fuch'a Union amongst us, for fuch Purpofes; "and we think Your Majefly and Your People are "equally concerned in this Infinuation.

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"The Lords, in their Reprefentation, affirm, "That "the Conimons, by appealing directly to the Throne "against the Houfe of Lords, and charging them with "Attempts of the highest Nature, without firft asking a "Conference, had done a Thing unprecedented." The "Commons, to prove the contrary, cite the Addrefs pre"fented to Your Majefty on the Behalf of the Bishop "of Worcester; and the Address of the Lords to the late King on Behalf of Four Lords named in their Ad"drefs. We crave Leave to ftate thofe Two Cafes.

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"The Commons had cenfured the Bishop of Worcester, "without giving him any Opportunity of being heard: "They had voted him Unchriftian; which furely is afperfing the Innocent without Poflibility of Repara"tion, as well as it was condemning him without a "Trial; and made an Addrefs to Your Majefty, to re"move him from being Almoner.

"This Proceeding feemed very extraordinary with "refpect to Your Majefty; and very Unparliamentary "with refpect to the Houfe of Lords, of which the "Bishop was a Member; and yet no Notice was taken "of them. Upon this, the Lords made an Application "to Your Majefty, on Behalf of the Reverend Prelate, "that he might not fuffer in Your Majefty's Opinion "before he had an Opportunity of making his De"fence.

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"The Cafe of the Four Lords was this: The Commons having, at the Bar of the Houfe of Lords, impeached them for High Crimes and Mifdemeanors, "the next Day made an Addrefs to the late King, to remove them from His Prefence and Councils for "ever. The House of Lords thought this an Attempt "of the highest Nature upon their Judicature, that, while the Caufes were depending before them in Par"liament, the Commons fhould quit the Part they had "taken of Accufers, and pretend to be the Judges them-"felves, and folicit the King to put their Sentence in "Execution immediately. But yet they proceeded to "act with fuch a Moderation as was fcarce to be jufti"fied. They forbore expoftulating with the Commons; "much lefs did they appeal to the Throne against "them: They only defired the King not to pass any « took no Notice that the Commons had made any Ad"Cenfure upon them before they were tried. They

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"drefs; and only endeavoured to prevent the Injustice
"and Oppreffion which might have been done to their
own Members, and the Affront offered to their Judi-
"cature, without making the leaft Reflection on this
"Proceeding. And they had no other Way of acting;
"for no Conference could have prevented the Impreffion"
"that might have been made on the King by fuch an
Application of the Commons.

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"The Lords will think themfelves concerned, in all. "Times, to obferve and maintain the Law and Ufage "of Parliaments in Impeachments: And this they did, "with all poffible Exactnefs, upon the Occafion of the Impeachments of thofe Four Lords; but they could not judge it reasonable, to let the Accufers fhare with them in their Judicature: And if the Commons, in "Times to come, fhall fo far forget themfelves, as to "endeavour to blaft Men's Reputations, by exhibiting "Articles when they are not able or prepared to main"tain their Charge, the Lords will always look upon "themselves as bound to do equal Juftice, and dif"charge the Innocent. Nothing can truly leffen or "weaken the Force and Awe of Impeachments, but a "partial Ufe of them. While they continue to be the "equal Inftruments of Public Juftice, they will have "their Weight in all Places; but if Once they are made "ufe of to defame Men only, without Thoughts of bringing them to Trial, Impeachments will lofe their "Terror, and the Houfe of Commons will not increase "their Honour or Authority; and if, in that Cafe, the "Houfe of Lords could not do Juftice to the Accused, "they would be the only Judicature which had the unhappy Power of condemning, but not of acquitting.

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relating to the Confpiracy before us; and You had "Your Majefty was pleafed to lay the Papers "given Your Royal Approbation to the Method in "which we had put the Examination: And it seems "a ftrange Averfenefs to Parliamentary Inquiries, that they would not leave it poffible, even with the Concurrence of the Crown, for either Houfe of Parlia"ment to inquire into Confpiracies; though, at the "fame Time, we muft freely own, that if this Power "be not lodged in us by the Conftitution, it ought not, "nor indeed cannot, be given and delegated by the

"The Lords are far from pretending to be the fole Examiners of Confpiracies: Hereafter, if the Com"mons will do their Duty in concerning themfelves for "the Public Safety; but if they will fhew fo little "Zeal as the Gentlemen of this Houfe of Commons "have done; if, when they are told of Confpiracies "from the Throne, they will concern themselves fo little, "as to leave the Inquiry to others; the Lords must of Confequence be the fole Inquirers, or elfe Parlia ments must be totally excluded from fuch Examinations.

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"Crown.

"Most Gracious Sovereign,

"We humbly ask Pardon, for having detained You "fo long, upon a Subject which cannot but be dif"agreeable to Your Majefty.

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"We beg Leave to conclude, with expreffing the "juft Sense we have of that virtuous and truly Royal "Moderation which Your Majefty has fhewn upon this "Occafion, in not fuffering Yourself to be prevailed "upon to do any Thing to the Prejudice of the Confti"tution, from whatfoever Hands the Invitation comes. "It fhall be our daily Prayers to ALMIGHTY GOD, "that He will long preferve and profper Your Majefty, for the Good of this Kingdom; and that Your "Reign may be as glorious all the World over, as it is happy to all Your People."

"The Commons, in their Second Addrefs, complain, "That they are accufed moft unjustly, of exciting, and "earnestly deliring, Your Majefty to exert Your Prerogative against the Houfe of Lords." The Words of their First Addrefs are fo plain, that no other "Conftruction could be reasonably put upon them; "and we are now very fure we did not miftake their Meaning, fince, in the Votes which they have laid "before Your Majefty, they have thought fit to explain themfelves, and, in direct Terms, defire Your Majefty to re-affume the juft Exercife of Your Preroga"tive, and take to Yourfelf the Examination of the "Matters relating to the Confpiracy.

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"I now intend to acquaint you (as I fhall always do "with any Thing that concerns Me), that I have been "informed of a Defign against My Perfon by the Jefuits; of which I fhall forbear My Opinion, left I may feem to fay too much or too little. But I will "leave the Matter to the Law; and, in the mean Time, will take as much Care as I can, to prevent all "Manner of Practices by that Sort of Men, and of "others too, who have been tampering in a high Degree by Foreigners, and contriving how to introduce "Popery among us.

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"Whereupon the Houfe made the following Ad

"drefs:

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