ministers might hope that this mea. sure would be ultimately beneficial, he must ask them if they did not consider that some supply was necessary for the army in the present year, and whether any of their measures had a tendency to procure that supply?Sir James wished extremely to see the training bill carried into effect.

Sir John Doyle having observed that government had not been able to restore the blessings of peace, and that the continuation of the war was inevitable; and having stated our danger, and pointed out the folly of relying solely on Our naval strength, came to the army, which, he said, was inferior only in numeri. cal force, to that of the enemy, and particularly to the plan of the right honourable secretary, for recruiting it. It had been remarked that the measure of limiting the term of service, would have no effect on the minds of soldiers, or those likely to become So. Now he held in his hand two papers that would shew the futility of an observation so contrary to common reason. The one was the return of a battalion of the army of reserve, of which, for the six months previous to the new measure, 147 men engaged for general service; whilst 334 engaged in the six months subsequent to this measure.

The

other was a still stronger case. For seven months prior to this change, only one man, out of a battalion of 400 men, extended his services. But in the month, when the right honourable secretary's plan was explained to the battalion, 264 men immediately turned out : thus polling, as it were, for his measure by accla mation. There had been a great dif. ference also, as the right honourable gentleman had observed, in the desertions. But, perhaps it was not

quite correct to set down as deserters all those who received bounty on the parish bill. For such fellows never joined, or meant to join any corps, and therefore could not properly be called deserters, but robbers. And he was not sure, that it would be quite incorrect to consider those who held out such temptations to them, as accomplices. A great part of those whom the bill collected, were, in fact, unfit for service; even where they were honest enough to shew a dis. position to serve. How many of them had he seen to bring a wife and six children? The old adage says, that it requires nine tailors to make a man but nineteen of the fellows he had alluded to, would not make a soldier.Sir John would by no means be understood to speak lightly of that meritorious body, the volunteers. He admired as much as any man, that brilliant effusion of national spirit and valour, which burst forth so nobly in the hour of danger and he had no doubt but the manifestation of that spirit had made a very powerful impression on the enemy. But still he might be allowed, consistently with the regard he had always entertained for those gallant men, to express his disapprobation of the system under which they were originally organized and trained. A great deal of unnecessary instruction and inappropriate discipline was attempted to be communicated to them at the outset. It happened to Sir John, in America, to meet with a circumstance from which he derived much useful information on this head. About 150 recruits were sent out to the regiment of which he was the adjutant. He immediately proceeded to have them taught secundùm artem; eyes to the right, toes out, and so on. But

he

he was interrupted in his course by the major, who was a very sensible intelligent man, and who told him that he began at the wrong end. Sir John accordingly changed his course, and taught his men to manage the firelock: and this proved to be a wise advice, for these recruits, in three weeks after they arrived, had to meet the enemy. Now the volunteers ought to have been so instructed, for the invasion by the enemy was almost daily expected, at the very time when a kind of discipline was commenced, which they could not have learned for six months, and which was unnecessary, if they could. The volunteers would be extremely useful as auxiliaries to our army, particularly from the nature of the country, which was enclosed, and their local knowledge, were they merely trained as light troops.

Mr. Johnstone was of opinion, that Mr. W.'s plan had completely failed; and asked ministers, what was to prevent them from recruiting from the militia? According to the right honourable secretary's plan, the militia were to be reduced to 40,000 men. From the surplus number, therefore, the army might be strongly recruited. Yet this plan, easy as it was to be carried into ex. ecution, had not been adopted. Why? The real reason he believed to be, that ministers were afraid of offending the militia colonels.

Mr. Rose found that the amount of the estimates was actually 475,000%, more than those of 1805. This was a sufficient answer to the assertion, that the late ministers would have made the estimates higher. With respect to the increased allowances in the Chelsea hospital, he dreaded the effect of

these in a peace establishment. In the event of a peace, probably 50,000 men would be discharged, and, with the increased allowances, an additional expence would accrue of 6 or 700,000l. Mr. Thornton thought that Mr. Windham's mea sures for recruiting the army, as a genera! and permanent system, were good; but he doubted their efficacy for immediate defence. He approved highly of converting the service for life into a service for years. He approved also of the Training bill,as tending to diffuse a military spirit throughout the country. But, at the same time, he thought it was calculated to do any thing rather than to provide for immediate defence. Much time was necessarily spent in prep). ring great measures, and carrying them into execution, and he was anxious for some measure that might meet the immediate exigencies of the country.

Lord H. Petty observed, that it had been stated by gentlemen on the opposite side of the house, that the numbers of men raised according to the papers on the table, did not equal the amount of what his right honour. able friends had stated in their speeches. It was to be recollected, however, that the papers began the account from March last, and that of course, they did not contain a year's return. But if gentlemen would have the goodness to wait until the month of March next, he was confident, from the result of the most minute enquiries he had made in the best-informed quarters, that, by that time, the numbers would even exceed those stated in the estimate of his right honourable friends....He challenged gentlemen on the opposite benches, to contradict him, when he stated to the house, that in the staff

at home, there had been a saving of 43,0001. and in the barrack depart. ment, notwithstanding that there had been, last year, a retrenchment to the amount of 500,000l. there was this year, a farther saving of 50,000l. And in the commissariat depart. ment, there were nine places less than in the preceding year. He was anxious to reform abuses, and to diminish expences where the practices were known to be corrupt, and the establishments useless. But to give grudgingly to the soldier disabled, or to the veteran worn out in the service of the country, was a thought which he could not bear. And he declared his opinion that his right honourable friend, Mr. Windham, was entitled to the thanks of the nation for the act, not of generosity, but of humanity and justice, which he had done in their name to a most deserving set of men.

The resolutions were read a second time, and agreed to.

On the same day, January 23, the house of commons went into a committee of supply upon the navy estimates for the current year. The right honourable Mr. Thomas Grenville, first lord of the admiralty, moved for a vote of 10,000 seamen, in addition to the 120,000 already Toted. As to the necessity of this additional supply not having been foreseen when the late grant was made, the accounts ending the 30th September, took in the estimates but for three-fourths of the year, and he could not competently decide on the point of what might be necessary, until furnished with the remaining quarterly account, ending 31st December. It a was a great satisfaction to him to state to the committee, that it appeared by this last quarter's estimates, that the number of British

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seamen exceeded 126,000 men. might appear a question, why, if the numbers had exceeded by more than 6000, than 6000, the ordinary supply, there should now be a farther de mand for an additional 10,000? This was accounted for by the variety of increased expenditure in the department relative to the marines.--According to the present mode of submitting to the house the naval supplies, it was impossible that the members could be put in possession of all the information that was necessary to a right judgment of the supplies required. But he had it in contemplation so to arrange the statement of the naval estimates in future,. as to render them clear and intelligible to every gentleman who might be anxious to examine them minutely. It was intended that dif. ferent articles of expenditure should be arranged under the following heads: 1st, Wages to the officers; 2d, seamen; 3d, marines; 4th and 5th, pilotage and wages; 6th, wear and tear; which would be a most important and comprehensive head of expence; 7th, pensions; 8th, salaries to the admiralties; 9th, rebuilding ships in merchants-yards by contract; 10th, hired armed ships; 11th, the most difficult branch of all others, to detail purchases of stores, to replenish his majesty's magazines, an article requiring in itself no less a sum than 3,600,000l.; the 12th, head he should intitle bills of exchange; 13th, incidental expences; and 14th, and last, the victualling board....Mr. Grenville illustrated the necessity of such an arrangement, and concluded with moving his first resolution, which related to the additional 10,000 seamen.

After a short conversation of no interest or importance, the reso

lutions t

lations on the navy estimates, were agreed to. The other resolutions were for granting 240,500l. as wages for 10,000 seamen for thirteen months; 247,000l. for victualling and other necessaries; 3901, for wear and tear of ships; 32,5007. for ordnance; 1,135,4347. for the ordinaries of the navy; 2,134,9031. for building ships in merchants yards, and other extra expences; 1,500,000l. for the hire of transports; 300,000l. for sick and Wounded seamen; 500,000l. for prisoners of war.

Mr. Vansittart moved the following sums for miscellaneous service: 6,8531. for the superintendance of aliens; 12,000/. for defraying the expences of the public office in Bow-street; 51,3501. for convicts at home; 15,000l. for contingencies in the offices of the three secretaries of state; 12,000l. for messengers for the secretaries' offices, &c.; 11,600,1751. for foreign and secret service money; 20,000l. for law charges; 30001. for the expence of prosecuting those concerned in the forgery of coin, &c.; 11,6007. for sheriffs of counties, to defray the extra expence incurred in the conviction of felons, &c.; 140,1991. for the relief of French, Dutch, and Corsican emigrants, and also American loyalists; 1,432l. 13s. 6d. to pay the balance advanced for ditto, in 1806; 1,3367. for the relief of poor dissenting ministers, and French refugees; 1,8281. for the use of a certain class of ministers; 1,934/. for stationery to the court of exchequer, &c. ; 5,2107. for the salaries and other expences of certain offices connected with both houses of parliament; 39,7607. to defray the expences of certain improvements made, and still to be

made in buildings of both houses of parliament; 11,8007. to make good the vote of last session, for defraying the expence of certain additions to the houses of parliament, and also that of the speaker; 4,9931. for pay. ing the expence of military roads in North-Britain.-These resolutions were agreed to, and ordered to be reported.

February 20. The house of com mons resolved itself into a committee of supply, on the various accounts respecting the Irish miscellaneous services.

Sir John Newport moved, and it was resolved by the committee, that the several sums in the respective estimates, amounting in all to 666,000l. be granted for his majesty's services, to which they referred for the year ending on the 1st of January 1808. On the resolution that a sum of 5000l. be granted for the Roman-catholic college at May. nooth, in addition to the annual sum of 8000l. (which additional grant was made for the erection of other buildings for the farther accommodation of the students in that seminary,) a short conversation took place; in the course of which, Mr. Perceval objected to the proposed addition, as the commencement of an increasing expenditure would tend to make that institution rival the university of Dublin, and thereby tend to the establishment of the Roman-catholic religion: though he did not then mean to press his opposition to a division. Sir John Newport thought the catholics could not, by being educated abroad, be rendered better subjects, and that a domestic education for them was most desirable. The petition was solely for the education of the catholic clergy, but a lay seminary G 3

had

had been established near the col. lege, which had the benefit of the professors of the college. The ca. tholics had not been allowed to enter. the university of Dublin, till the relaxation in 1793, immediately after which the institution at Maynooth had been founded. Mr. Grattan said, that the question lay within a narrow compass: whether the Ro. man-catholic was to go abroad, to form foreign connections, involve himself in foreign relations, and bring home foreign affections to his country; or whether he was to remain in his native land, and there acquire the instruction he was there to disseminate?-Keep the Roman. catholic at home, said Mr. G. Home education will promote allegiance. Kept at home, and tau ht to love his country, he must revere its govern. ment; foreign education can en gender no great loyalty.-Mr. Banks thought the institution highly impolitic, and that catholicisin in Ireland should not be upheld, but dis couraged. Lord Stanley highly ap. proved the principle of the institution.

The resolutions were agreed to, and reported March 4th; when the conversation approaching to the style of a debate, was resumed on the grant of 50007. in addition to the 80001. formerly granted to the Roman-ca. tholic college at Maynooth.

Mr. Perceval said, that in perusing the journals of the Irish house of commons, at the period when the measure of founding the Maynooth college was submitted to the Irish parliament, the catholics themselves presented a petition against the inexpediency of excluding the protestants from the option of being educated there; being sensible, no doubt, that friendship and concilia

tion would follow from the profes sors of the two religions being asso ciated in their education. Had the public money of that time been expended in enlarging the university of Dublin, instead of adopting the po licy of a separate institution, a great object would have been obtained, the benefits arising from which would have every day increased. The in terests of the protestant university were sacrificed to the advancement of the catholic seminary. Within a few years the professors of the latter institution were doubled; there being, instead of the nine original professors, now eighteen. In the university of Dublin, provision was made for only 100 persons, including the fellows, senior and junior scholars, and sizers; whilst the public were called on to defray the expences of 200 Roman.catholic professors and students in the college of Maynooth, a class of subjects who, in their re. ligious tenets, withheld from their lawful sovereign the admission of his supremacy.-As to the place of education, whether abroad or at home, it did not seem to Mr. P. & matter of much consequence, The true and strong source of danger and hostility lay in the principles in which the Roman-catholics were educated. There seemed to Mr. P. a great mystery about the Maynooth institution. There was nothing like a visitorial inspection, no inquiry as to the doctrine instilled, and discipline exercised over a number of youth educated, if not in aversion, at least in opposition and hostility to the principles of the protestant establishment.

Sir John Newport did not admit, that either the existence or the enlargement of the college of Maynooth was prejudicial to the interests of the university

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