A. I recollect perfectly well receiving such a memorial, and being very glad to know the full extent of general Miranda's views; but cer. tainly avoided to commit myself, or the British government, beyond the object I have already stated relative to South America; upon which subject I had certainly entertained a most anxious wish at that time, and almost from that time until Iwas called to take the public concerns under my more immediate consideration; and that anxiety certainly never di minished, but much increased, in consequence of all the events which for some years past had taken place in the East Indies, the West Indies, and, above all, on the continent of Europe..

Q. In consequence of your lordship's great pressure of business, it is possible you may not recollect all the circumstances relative to this object so well as myself, who had nothing else to think of; but you may recollect employing me to draw up such a memoir ?

A. I certainly did employ you to draw up such a memoir, and I thought I expressed myself so before.

Q. Does your lordship, when you did me the honour to appoint me to the Diadem, recollect that it was for prosecuting some of the plans mentioned in the said memoir?

A. When sir Home Popham was appointed to the Diadem, the object then immediately in view was to co-operate, either with or without Miranda, in such objects as, mentioned in the memoir, might be thought conducive to the interests of Britain.

Q. Does your lordship recollect so far as to bring under your contemplation, whether the season was

so far advanced, that the part in which I was particularly to be employed-was to restrict me to the particular object of the Cape, or to allow me a discretion of prosecuting other objects, with a view to open the markets of South Ameri ca?,

A. Undoubtedly the South-American market was the great object; but I cannot speak to any farther details at so early a period of the business. The business was not s far advanced as to be the subject of detailed instructions, which might have fixed the particulars more firmly in my memory. It oc curs to me, at this moment, as not improbable, that the coast of South America, in the neighbourhood of Trinidad, was at one time looked upon as a probable scene for opera tions.

Q. On hearing of the capture of Buenos Ayres,did your lordship con sider it as an object materially advancing the great object Mr. Pitt and you had in view with respect to South America?

Mr. Jarvis objected to this ques tion; but the court considered it a mere question of opinion, and over ruled the objection.

Sir Home Popham said, that by the question he only meant to prov the opinion of the cabinet as to their original plan of attacking South America, and their design to follow up that intention.

Mr. Jarvis answered, that it wa quite sufficient for him that the cour objected to his objection, to induc him to relinquish it,

A. No doubt the capture of Bue nos Ayres was highly beneficial to the object we had in view; but I am by no means sure if I may not have ta ken that impression from the cir

cumstanc

cumstance of Buenos Ayres having been one of the specific objects in view when the armament was in contemplation in the year 1798; I remember there was an armament

then in contemplation, which was to go round Cape Horn, and take Buenos Ayres in its way.

Q. Does your lordship recollect my having been confidentially employed, both in the late and present war, by different members of the cabinet ?

A. I certainly know sir Home Popham was employed confidential ly by the different members of the cabinet which he alludes to.

Q. Is it in your lordship's contemplation, that, in the execution of those instructions, circumstances arose which were not provided for in my instructions, nor indeed could they be; and that, under these cir. cumstances, I exercised any very large discretion to obtain the great object for which I was so employed; I particularly allude to one of my missions to the court of St. Petersburgh.

Mr. Jarvis objected to the question, upon the ground, that the prisoner sought to infer that, because he had, upon other occasions, exercised an enlarged discretion, he was therefore warranted to do so on this occasion.

Sir Home Popham.-I used it to shew that I was meeting the object of the government by whom I was 10 employed, and as a justification for my deviating from my original instructions.

The court. You have no occasion to trouble yourself as to having before exercised an enlarged discretion; you had no reasonable right to presume, that the exercise of a large discretion, in this case, was VOL. XLIX.

admissible; and it is the business of sir Home Popham to shew, that officers had generally exercised a discretionary power.

Lord Melville.-1 really would state the affair fully, but I am extremely embarrassed upon the subject, lest I may be led to disclose confidential matter which should not be made public. But I may give a general answer; that I know, sir Home Popham has been employ. ed confidentially, and has received the full approbation of government.

Admiral Stanhope.-He may, I think, answer this question, in or. der to shew, that sir Home Popham was, upon other occasions, permit. ted to exercise discretionary pow

ers.

Cross-examined by Mr. Jarvis.

Q. Was sir H. Popham appoint. ed by your lordship to the Diadem with a view to carry offensive ope. rations against Spanish South Ame. rica, and what part of it in parti. cular?

A. I believe sir H. Popham was appointed to that ship with a view of co-operating with general Mi. randa, to the extent of taking advantage of any of his proceedings, which would lead to the acquiring, on the continent of South America, a trade favourable to this country; but I do not recollect any precise place having been appointed.

Q. Was sir Home Popham appointed by your lordship to any command authorizing him to attack any part of South America ?

A. Certainly not, in the proper sense of the word.

Q. Is there any note, or official document, on the records of the ad. miralty, in your lordship's recollec. tion, stating the object for which sir Dd

Home

Home Popham was appointed to the Diadein?

A. I cannot speak with absolute certainty, but I should think there is not.

Q. Your lordship has said, that Buenos Ayres was the principal object in view, when the armament was in contemplation, in 1796; had your lordship that place in con. templation at any time since the breaking out of the present Spanish war, up to the time your lord. ship retired from office?

A. At all times, and in every conversation I have had with Mr. Pitt, I make no doubt Buenos Ayres was often the subject of discussion. My reason for being so confident of this is, that in all the consideration I gave to the subject of South America, whether the attack was to be made upon a larger or smaller scale, I always considered the Rio de la Plata as the most important position for the interests of Great Britain on that side of South America.

Q. I would take the liberty of asking your lordship whether, with those opinions, it was determined by his majesty's then ministers to make any attack upon Buenos Ayres, and whether sir Home Popham was appointed to any command for that purpose?

A. I do not believe that his majesty's government had ever collectively come to any resolution to make any attack upon South America; and it will be recollected, after what I have already stated, that it was only for a few months after the beginning of 1805 I remaiued in office.

Q. By the court.-Whether were the objects, upon which sir Home was employed by his majesty's ministers, in which he used his discre

tion, and his conduct, approved o Was he employed as a captain in majesty's navy, or on service of nature distinct and different fro the naval service?

A. Upon those of the latter d scription, except one circumstan in the Red-sea, which admits some exception.

By sir Home Popham.

Q. Was it customary to enter minute at the admiralty, when officer was selected by the cabin or the leading members of it, make the necessary preparations secret service which was afterwa to be submitted to their conside tion?

A. Certainly not. Mr. Sturges Bourne was examined; but his evidence was little importance.

Mr.

Huskisson sworn, and exami

by sir H. Popham.

Q. Had you any conversa with Mr. Pitt, in the year 1805. the subject of South America, particularly Buenos Ayres; and you by his directions take any st respecting myself?

A. I had many frequent con sations with Mr. Pitt, on the s ject of South America, and I mi say particularly with respect to enos Ayres.

Q. Have the goodness to s the nature of those conversati with Mr. Pitt in general; but I not wish to exact from you thing that can affect the interest the state, or of individuals, howe materially such disclosures mi serve my purpose.

A. I believe almost on every casion, Mr. Pitt conversed with on the subject of South Amer his attention was called to that || of the globe particularly by som

cilent or occurrence. A person brought to me a plan or chart of the Rio de la Plata, which had been recently, as he informed me, published at Paris, the original being taken from the depôt of the king of Spain, at Madrid; and he added, that he had intelligence which led him to believe that plan would shortly be of use to some part of the French Davy, who would probably find their way with troops to that settle ment. Knowing this person was one on whom Mr. Pitt could place reliance, I felt it my duty to comnicate to Mr. Pitt what that peron told me. Mr. Pitt stated to me, generally, the views he entertained with respect to South Ameica; and he generally conceived that it would be of the utmost con equence to this country to mainain our naval superiority, and the acilities to which that superiority would enable us in distant operaons against South America, if bliged to carry on the war, as the access of the confederacy on the ontinent of Europe did not corre pond with his wishes, and it was so desirable to prevent the French ng that which they certainly ould do, if not anticipated. namely, your taking possession of the panish settlements in South Ameca; he was therefore disposed to ve credit to the person who gave at information, and hoped we ould be beforehand with the periority of naval resources. This the general subject of the consation. I can only state very erally the purport of Mr. Pitt's te, but I cannot say more, thout being so guarded as scarcely render myself intelligible. I did further steps to obtain inforon respecting Buenos Ayres,

and put a series of questions to learn whether any French force were likely to arrive there, and also took preliminary steps with a view to facilitate the capture by a British force. Those steps were taken very shortly after the explanations were given to sir Home, and the persons spoken of in these conversations as a person with whom he had communi. cated, and who had given him much information upon the subject.

Q. I think you said Mr. Pitt desired you to take some prelimi nary steps, as, in case of the continuance of the war, it would be of great importance to commence operations in South America, and still greater to anticipate the supposed views of France in that quarter of the world. Do you know of any circumstances which happened to occasion him to change his opinion as to the value he set on the objects of his views in South America?

A. I believe his views in South America were not confined to the mere object of introducing British manufactures, but I have no occasion for belief that any of his views with respect to that country were at all changed.

Q. Do you think his views ma. terially increased by the extraordinary and rapid successes of the French on the continent, and from shutting up the ports of the conti nent against our trade?

A. I believe they were.

Cross-examined by Mr. Jarvis.

Q. Did Mr. Pitt at any time state to you, that sir Home Popham had any positive or provisional instructions to proceed to South America after the reduction of the Cape, in the event of success in that quarter? A. I never understood that he had such instructions.

D d 2

Q. Do