related to reform, but could not give up the privileges of the House. He moved that it be laid on the table. Mr. Whitbread remarked that there appeared a disposition in some gentlemen to discredit petitions when they came to that House. This petition pretended to be nothing more than an expression of the sentiments of the 3,000 persons who had signed it. As to the allusion to a change of opinion, the hon. general would recollect that the member for Yorkshire had strenuously contended that the strongest proof of independence was to vote sometimes with one side and sometimes the other. There was one signature which added greatly to the weight of the petition petitioners have been still more strongly confirmed in the opinion above stated, by the fact that lord viscount Castlereagh, a member of the House, was in the said General Gascoyne seconded the motion. session convicted of the twofold offence of He agreed in the respectability of many offering East India patronage in barter for of those whose signatures appeared to the a seat in the House, and that this offence, petition. But its sentiments were by no and the vindication of the system of cor- means that of the majority of the popularuption above alluded to, were passed over tion of Liverpool, which contained by the House without any vote of censure 100,000 inhabitants. Not one-tenth of thereon; and that Sir Francis Burdett, bart. those he thought would sign that petition. also a member of the House, having in a His hon. colleague had himself not very letter to his constituents on the cominittal long ago entertained a different opinion. of John Gale Jones, questioned the right In general the inhabitants of Liverpool of the House to commit any one not being were content with the blessings they ena member of the same for an offence cog-joyed, without being disposed to cavil and nizable by the laws of the land, has, for exaggerate evils. the publishing of the above-mentioned letter, been himself committed a prisoner to the Tower; and the petitioners further beg leave to state, that, reflecting upon the long continued impunity of the authors of national disasters, and also upon the impunity of lord Castlereagh, and the vindicators of parliamentary corruption, as compared with the proceedings lately adopted against Sir F. Burdett, they are greatly apprehensive that an opinion may go abroad among the people at large, that a zealous maintenance of the liberty of the subject is a more flagrant offence in the eye of the House than the wanton destruction, by rashness and imbecility, of thousands of his Majesty's gallant soldiers and seamen, the profuse expenditure of the public resources, or the corruption of the representation of the people; and that the petitioners, abstaining from animadversions on matters which will in all probability become the subject of legal investigation, humbly state to the House, that, considering the premises, and being anxiously desirous that the true dignity of the House should be maintained, they do strongly but respectfully press upon the consideration of the House the necessity of a reform in the Commons House of Parliament, which may ensure the purity and integrity of the House, and above all the "That the Petitioners are of opinion it responsibility of ministers; and they fur- is indispensable for the preservation of our ther beg leave to submit to the wisdom of admirable and revered constitution, that the House the expediency of summoning the House should be so formed as to beSir F. Burdett to assist in the deliberations come in reality what it is in theory and in which must necessarily take place on this name (that is to say,) that it should acmomentous subject, and also of perform-tually consist of the representatives of ing what the petitioners cannot but consider as an act of justice, the liberation of John Gale Jones from imprisonment." General Tarleton stated that he concurred in that part of the Petition which he meant that of Mr. Roscoe, a most enlightened patriot; and the hon. general would forgive him the wish, that Mr. Roscoe had presented the petition, and that the honourable general had signed it. The Petition was then laid on the table. [PETITION FROM WORCESTER FOR PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.] Mr. Robarts presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of Worcester in favour of Parliamentary Reform. Mr. Gordon seconded the motion for its being laid on the table, and expressed his determination to support such a Reform as might be consistent with the safety of the constitution. The Petition was read, setting forth: such as pay taxes to the State; and that in various petitions which have been presented to the House, the defective state of the representation has been clearly pointed out; and particularly in a petition presented by Charles Grey, esq. (now earl | Grey,) on the 6th day of May 1793, it was stated, and proof thereof was offered to be adduced, "That the House of Commons did not fully and fairly represent the people of England; that the elective franchise was partially and unequally distributed; and that the right of voting was regulated by no uniform or rational principle;" and that Rutland and Yorkshire (the one the smallest and the other the largest county in England) returned an equal number of representatives;" and that in such petition are enumerated various other anomalies in the representation equally glaring, as will appear by a reference to the said petition, entered on the Journals of the House; and that in the opinion of the petitioners it is owing to these defects in the constitution of the House, that the nation is now groaning under a weight of taxes almost intolerable, occasioned by impolitic, ill-conducted and disastrous wars; and also that to the same cause is to be ascribed the present temper and feeling of the people, who are unhappily led to regard the House as having ceased to be the efficient guardians of their rights, their liberties and their properties; and the petitioners having seen that the hon. Thomas Brand, one of the members of the House, has given notice of a motion on this subject, do therefore earnestly request that this House will give the same their most serious consideration, in order that means may be adopted, not only for shortening the duration of parliaments, but for carrying into speedy effect some measure of radical reform, calculated to remedy the grievances complained of, and to entitle the House to the affection and full confidence of the people." [PETITION FROM CANTERBURY FOR REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.] Mr. Wardle presented a Petition from the freemen and inhabitants of Canterbury, setting forth, "That the petitioners, the freemen and inhabitants of the antient and loyal city of Canterbury, assembled before the Guildhall of that city, on the 14th day of May 1810, humbly beg leave to lay before the House their heartfelt regrets at the late proceedings of the House, in which are involved the seizure and commitment of two of their fellow-subjects, on a charge of having offended the House by their writings, the breaking open of a dwelling house with an armed military force, under the alledged sanction of a warrant from the Speaker of the House, and the foul stain of murder fixed by two coroners juries on that body of troops to which the care of the royal person is more particularly confided; the petitioners neither wish nor mean to insult the feelings of the House by an open and explicit declaration of their sentiments on these subjects, and they humbly trust that the House will not be offended when they say, that they feel exactly as the House would feel, supposing, what cannot happen in this reign, that the King should by armed force break open the house of the Speaker, and convey him to the Tower, for having uttered an expression in a pamphlet, which however true in itself, might be offensive to some corrupt member of administration; and the petitioners do further beg leave to state to the House, that where the reign of unlimited privilege begins that of liberty ends; and that they, in common with the great mass of their countrymen, are thoroughly convinced, that if a body of men is allowed to be prosecutor, judge,jury, and executioner in its own cause, there is not sufficient virtue in man to prevent that body from becoming arbitrary, oppressive, cruel, and tyrannical; the petitioners do therefore most humbly entreat the House to revise their proceedings against Mr. John Gale Jones and Sir Francis Burdett, and to state, in what their offence consists; for in the paper of the former the petitioners can see nothing to excite such indignation in the House: and the letter of sir F. Burdett to his constituents most ably, legally and constitutionally discusses the question of the confinement, and has never been refuted; and the petitioners are the more earnest that the House should revise their proceedings in these respects, since they are not able to acCount for the unexampled severity of the House towards Mr. John Gale Jones and sir F. Burdett, and the refusal of the House to enquire into the conduct of lord Castlereagh and Mr. Perceval, who at the time stood distinctly charged with the sale of a seat in the House, evidence of which was offered at the bar by a member of the House, and it was declared in the House, "that such practices were as notorious as the sun at noon day," prac. tices at the bare mention of which the Speaker of the House declared that our ancestors would have started with horror and indignation: now the petitioners humbly beg of the House to consider, which is of the greatest importance, the preservation of, to say the least, a 121] doubtful privilege, or the preservation of the country from corrupt and dishonourable practices; and in what light it will be considered by posterity, that sir F. Burdett, a real representative of the people, should be confined in the Tower, and Mr. Perceval should be at large in the House, and should take so great a share in the rejection of Petitions coupling his name with a transaction of a most odious nature, from a charge of which he ought either to be relieved, or to receive the severest censure of the House and that the evils of which the petitioners complain, and many more. which they could enumerate, they attribute to the state of representation in the House, which, if suffered to continue, may place the country in such hands as will render the House totally ineffectual for the grand purposes for which it is designed, and make it, instead of the pride and honour of the kingdom, the contempt of our own country, and the laughing stock of foreign nations: the petitioners do humbly, therefore, intreat the House to adopt such reforms in the representation as shall prevent any individual from possessing in his own right the means of controuling the votes of members of parliament, and to restore immediately to his seat sir F. Burdett, that at this aweful crisis, and in this most important work of reform, the House may have the benefit of his advice and assistance; and the petitioners do deprecate the idea, that the House should ever stand in need of the military for its support, as their earnest wishes and prayers are, that the House may be entitled to the utmost respect and veneration of the whole kingdom." The said Petitions were severally ordered to lie upon the table. [FOREST OF BERE.] Lord Cochrane adverted to the impropriety of allowing the bill for dividing and inclosing Bere forest to pass unknown to him, when he had given notice of a motion on the subject. He strongly objected to the parcelling away of the royal forests in this manner among individuals, when the scarcity of timber was so severely felt, and the expence of ship-building had risen to double its amount some years ago. He moved that a committee be appointed to examine into the interest of the crown in Bere forest. Mr. Rose stated, that as to the allowing of the bill to pass, his lordship had had an opportunity of attending, as the bill had by no means been hurried through the noble lord's motion. Mr. S. Bourne stated that as the forest formerly stood, it was impossible to preserve the timber. The bill to which the noble lord objected was designed to accomplish the very object which he himself appeared to have in view. The motion was negatived without a division. Lord Cochrane then proposed a Resolution, That due notice should in fature be given in the orders of the day respecting the proceedings upon bills granting away, diminishing, &c. the rights of the crown in the forests, &c. The Speaker stated that it was customary at present where the crown was interested, for the Speaker to ask whether the consent of the crown had been given. A plan, however was under consideration in a committee above stairs for having the several stages registered, so that any person might at once ascertain the stage of any Those that such bill as this. The plan as to public bills was already known. were both of a public and private nature were to be subjected to the double guard of a committee above stairs and a committee of the whole House. Mr. Chute expressed his surprise at the charge of precipitation in the proceeding on this bill, when it went on slower than bills of this nature usually did. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that a very effectual guard existed for the protection of the property of the crown. The surveyor-general examined, and reported to the treasury board, and they decided, whether the consent of the crown should be given. As to the bill in question, enough had been said to shew that the noble lord had been completely mistaken in his ideas respecting it. Mr. Fitzgerald agreed with the noble lord, that additional precautions were necessary with regard to these bills. Mr. Wilberforce observed, that the prac tice with regard to the property of the. crown, was exactly that with respect to the property of individuals. The crown and individuals stood on the same footing with respect to notices, and every thing was conducted in a way that precluded private interest and favour. An exact inquiry was made by the surveyor-general before the consent of the crown was given. He mentioned a forest in Lancashire of which the crown had only a small part, which was useless for the purposes of raising timber when undivided and uninclosed, but which, by being divided, as in the present instance, was in a fair way of being very valuable. Lord Cochrane thought, that when individuals came asking favours, the House ought to stipulate with them in favour of the public. The motion was negatived without a division. [REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.] Mr. Brand rose to submit to the consideration of the House the motion respecting parliamentary reform, of which he had given notice previous to the recess. When he considered the vast importance of this great question-when he looked to the internal situation of the country at the present moment-when he perceived that much of its difficulty, and all of its danger, arose from withholding a moderate reform in parliament from the wishes of the nation; but above all, when he contemplated the essential importance of this question to the liberties and rights of the empire, he felt the weight of the task he had undertaken -all the difficulties that belonged to it pressed upon his imagination; and he became more deeply sensible of his inability to do justice to the question. Before, however, he should enter upon the subject of his motion, he must beg leave to say a few words, which would relate personally to himself, in explanation of his motives in bringing it forward. At an early period of the session he had intended to have submitted to the House a motion similar to the present. On the morning (previous to the commitment of sir F. Burdett) of the decision of that House after the important discussion upon the Walcheren expedition; a decision which had excited so strongly the feelings of the public, and attracted so much suspicion upon that House, and drawn down so much and such just censure upon his Majesty's ministers, he had determined to bring forward this motion. An hon. friend of his had, however, at that time dissuaded him from putting his intention into execu tion; and the arguments of his hon. friend on the occasion appeared to him so sound and cogent, that he was induced to defer for a short time the motion which he had determined to bring forward, though his purpose most certainly remained fixed and unshaken. But the state The reason, which influenced him to make this statement of his former determination, was that he might refute the calumnies which he had already heard, and which he had no doubt he should hereafter hear urged against him, as to the time and circumstances under which he had thought it right to bring this subject before the House. It had been insinuated against him as matter of charge, that he should have thought of making any motion respecting parliamentary reform in the absence of sir Francis Burdett, who was considered the principal supporter of such a measure. ment of his fixed determination upon the subject, previous to the events which led to the absence of that hon. baronet, was the best answer to such a charge. Besides, it was well known to most of the very respectable constituents whom he represented. What were his opinions as to the necessity and expediency of parlia mentary reform-they expected from him that he should bring the subject into discussion-and in making his motion on this night, he should only be discharging a duty which was expected from him, and he was solemnly bound to perform. The events which had already taken place, and the consequent agitation of the public mind on this particular subject, alike rendered this duty imperious. A moderate reform of parliament was absolutely essential to the welfare of the community. It was a measure, which the violent demanded, and the prudent deemed it wise to encourage. The critical situation of the country called for it as the best means to dissipate the alarm which was so general, and to allay the discontents of the nation. If they wished to recover or preserve the confidence of the public, they must take speedy measures to conciliate the people-they must identify more with the people. It was notorious that there were at that moment in the House about seventy members, who were sent there at the nomination of certain individuals, the proprietors of the boroughs which they represented. Surely it could not be said that such members were representatives of the people in that House. They in reality only represented places, which having been formerly rich, opulent, and populous, had obtained the privilege of sending members to that House: but that right was virtually extinguished in consequence of the decay, and impoverishment, and decrease of population, which had subsequently taken place. These were circumstances too generally known, and too universally admitted, to require any demonstration. Evidence had even been offered in proof of the fact at their bar, and, therefore, it was unnecessary for him to attempt to establish by argument what was so notoriously borne out by the fact. The evils resulting from such a state of the representation were two fold; first, many decayed, rotten, and uninhabited boroughs sent members to that House, which had the effect of disfranchising a large portion of the population of the country; and, secondly, many opulent and populous places sent no representatives whatever to parliament. There were various other evils attending the present system which he should hereafter allude to, but the two he had thus stated would be sufficient for him to notice at that time. without hope, too, that his plan would meet the support of many of his hon. friends, as well those who wished well to reform generally, as those who were alarmed at the idea of any sudden or violent reform. Having stated thus much as to the manner in which he meant to proceed, he came now to the principal evils which he wished to have corrected, and to state the remedy he proposed to recommend. The first, the most obvious, and the greatest evil that existed was, that so many members of that House were nominated by individuals, the proprietors of decayed boroughs. The remedy for this evil was to be found in the good old constitutional practice of the legislature. He was not disposed to look to any innovation he should not consult any fanciful theory or speculative system-he would be guided by the sound practice of the British constitution, and in that he should find means enough to remedy the evil of which he complained. It was well known to have been the constitutional practice of old to relieve, on their application, particular boroughs from the onus of sending representatives to parliament. The same principle upon which this practice was founded, would authorise the disfranchisement at the present period, of such boroughs as no longer possessed property or population to entitle them to such a right. This prin Before however he should proceed to the detailed consideration of the evils that existed, and the remedy to be applied, he begged to say a few words as to the mode which he proposed to pursue. The griev-ciple had been uniformly acted upon, and ance, as he had stated, was universally he trusted that on the present occasion it admitted. Every man thought that a re- would be applied by that House, in order form in Parliament was necessary, but constitutionally and effectually to correct most men were alarmed at any idea of the defects in the state of the representasudden or violent reform. He was ready tion. He trusted that the decayed boto admit that he was one of those who felt roughs, whose representatives were sent this alarm; and, however partial he might to Parliament at the nomination of indibe to his own plan, his intention was inviduals, would be disfranchised, and that the first instance, to move for a Committee, in which it might undergo a vigilant revision, and he would have the opportunity of adopting any amendments which might be recommended. His first step, therefore, would be to move, that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the representation of the people in that House, and to suggest what remedies might be applied to any evils that existed. But previously to his making that motion, he felt it a duty he owed to the House, to state specifically the plan which he had it in contemplation to recommend, if it should be the pleasure of the House to accede to his motion and resolve into the Committee. (Hear! hear!) He was not the right of returning members to that House would be transferred to more opulent and populous places. There could be no question that it would be more desirable to have in that House, members uninfluenced by any external controul, than such whose opinions and votes must be controuled by the individuals who nominated them. But, as he had before ohserved, the remedy was pointed out by the constitution; and the only difficulty that occurred to him in its application was, how they were to ascertain what boroughs were so decayed as to be proper objects for disfranchisement. There were, he had reason to know, above thirty boroughs which had |