taken a retrospective view of the different advances made to the army, and the comparative increase which had taken place even in the wages of artizans, concluded with moving the repeal of those parts of the different acts imposing taxes upon property, which applied to officers in the army and navy, and to subalterns in the export trade of that country. The fate of Mr. R. Dundas opposed the motion, on the ground that the paper was now before the East India Committee, whose report would bring it under the consideration of the House. He had opposed the hon. gent.'s former motion, not from a desire of any concealment of affairs which were perfectly well known, but on account of the immense mass of papers moved for, which could not have been produced but at very great expence. He now opposed his motion, because he considered it highly inexpedient to take a detached paper from under the consideration of the Committee, and call on the House for a decision on a part of a question, when they would soon have the whole before them. Mr. John Smith thought the case of the officers of the army and navy a hard one, as it appeared that they had had more pay formerly than now, though à sum would have been affluence some time ago, which would now scarcely suffice for subsistence, however frugally managed. He had heard it said, that the great motive of the soldier ought to be honour, and that it would be better that officers should be persons of some substance. He could not assent to the principle. Some of the most valuable officers in the service had been men of no fortune, who raised themselves by their merits; and honour "had no skill in surgery," it certainly "had none in cookery." It would not serve for food. He stated that colonel Grey, one of his constituents, had mentioned to him cases of peculiar hardship in the profession from the scantiness of pay, and, indeed, he had himself observed many such. should be sorry to diminish the revenue, but he earnestly recommended it to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose priMr. Creevey wished that all the papers vate character he admired, to apply his which were moved for had been in the mind to this subject, and to improve the hands of hon. gentlemen during the recess. condition of the officers of the army and The various documents had not fair play navy, though the necessity in the navy in the House; it was necessary that it was not so strong. He pronounced an should be in possession of every paper, on eulogium on the character of the British these grounds he voted for the motion. army, and particularly adverted to the deMr. Grant observed, that on the sub-votion to their country with which they ject of Finance and the export trade there must necessarily be a multitude of docuIf the House was now to take them into consideration, it would just have to go over the same ground it did before. ments. Mr. Prendergast said, that it could be proved, by an examination into India affairs, that the company was in a state of bankruptcy; but if those affairs were properly attended to, the consequences would have been directly opposite. As to the documents, no possible reason could be given for their refusal. After a short conversation the House divided, when there appeared.-For the Motion-24; Against it-64; Majority -40. [PROPERTY TAX]. General Loft having He encountered all the hardships of foreign climates; of the West and East Indies, &c., a circumstance which, in his opinion, had not been sufficiently attended to. He asked whether a saving to the extent of 5 or 600,000l., a-year might not be made by imposing the beer tax on the malt, and so levying both the tax on beer and that on malt only at the expence which was now required to collect the latter tax? Lord Palmerstone admitted the merits of the officers of the army in their utmost extent; and the only ground of objection to the measure proposed, was its impracticability. The relief must come in a dif ferent way. He controverted some of the statements of the gallant general; for the pay was formerly liable to deductions, which had been laid aside, and as to the augmentation of salaries in the civil departments, it ought to be recollected that the rise was little more than a compensation for the loss of fees which had been abolished. He must oppose the motion. Mr. Hurst contended strongly for the propriety of adopting some measure of relief, at a time when all the necessaries of life were so much advanced in price. He thought also, that under the present regulation, the officers in the different services did not receive the sum which they were promised upon the faith of government. The income tax reduced it 10 per cent. If this was not done away, some other means should be tried to place them in a state of comfort, and enable the government to make good its promise to them. the allowances to public servants. He was sure he might without hesitation satisfy himself, that the House would not resist the petition of officers in the navy, if they can shew that they actually received less now than they did in 1693. But he must say, he did not wish to see any petition presented from them, and he was sure that the service might look with confidence to the right hon. gent. who presided at the board of admiralty; from those and from the crown did he hope that they would receive protection and support, in all and every difficulty. Mr. Whitbread said, he should oppose the motion; not because he thought the statements made were no grievances, or that no provision should be made, but because the principle upon which the pro posed relief was founded was a bad one. The officers of the army and navy should certainly be put in a better situation, par in the situation of the civil officers. He hoped the gallant general would not push the question to a division.-The motion was then withdrawn. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, May 23. Sir Charles Pole could not allow this question to go to a vote, without explaining his reason for the support which he should give it, although he thought it did not go farticularly after the alteration that was made enough, as the merely relieving officers from the 10 per cent. was not equal to their fair and honourable claims, he had almost said their just demands; but any and every amelioration of their present situation, was in his opinion, wise and necessary, and would have his support. He had on a former occasion stated to the House, and had endeavoured to call the attention of the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer to the pay of the officers of the navy, and had presumed to caution him against increasing the salaries of other servants of the public, unless he was prepared to meet the subject now before the House. He then stated that there were certain classes of the navy actually receiving less now than they did in 1693.-He must now restate that it would be the greatest injustice to the army and navy, if the stipends of the clergy and law officers with every other civil department under government were augmented, and no attention paid to the sufferings and privations of those officers, that the civil departments of the navy had been most considerably encreased, he need only to refer to a few, and he would instance that of the Secretary of the Admiralty, who in 1694 had only 8001. and no fees, and in 1810-4,000l. The judge had only 400 or 600l. and now he believed it was upwards of 5,000l. He was aware that the magnitude of the sum required, was such as to cause every minister to pause before he acceded to the claim, but this very statement made it more necessary that he should not augment partially [COMMERCIAL LICENSES.] The Earl of Lauderdale again complained of the abuses which attended the granting of licenses by the privy council to merchant vessels destined for different ports of the continent, and allowed to import different articles. By means of those new regulations the whole of the trade of the country was thrown into the hands and placed at the mercy of the noble lord at the head of the board of trade. No settled rule seemed to be laid down either respecting the terms upon which licenses were granted, the time they might endure, or the nature of the articles, the importation of which they permitted. The papers laid on the table in pursuance of a motion of his, did not answer his intentions or expectation, he must therefore move for more extended communications. Earl Bathurst observed, that in the granting of these licences, many irregu larities might occur, which it was impossible to provide against. It was found necessary to renew some licenses which had expired before the object for which they were granted had been obtained. In other cases pretended correspondences were adduced in order to obtain licenses, which were afterwards found to be fallacious, as they referred to contracts which never had taken place. But what the noble lord complained of had occurred during the late administration, as well as under the present administration, and perhaps could not be well avoided. Lord Holland would not look for a justification of such measures to the conduct of this or that administration. The question was, whether they were right or wrong. In his opinion they had all their source in the orders of council. The Earl of Lauderdale made a few observations in reply, and concluded with moving for the production of a return of the licenses granted from the year 1793, and the description of the parties to whom they had been granted down to the present time.-Ordered. [DROITS OF ADMIRALTY.] Lord Holland regretted he was not in the House when it was moved, that the bill for granting an annuity to his serene highness the duke of Brunswick be read the third time; for he should have thought it his duty to have moved a postponement. At the same time he trusted no objection would be taken to his moving a reconsideration of the propriety of taking this grant from the consolidated fund, if other sources should be discovered from whence it might have been more satisfactorily made. He should now move, "That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, for a return of the amount of the droits of admiralty, and the purposes to which they had been applied."-The motion was agreed to. who was acquainted with Mr. Hunt's hand-writing. Since he came into the House, he had shewn it to a member of the board of ordnance, who declared it to be Mr. Hunt's hand-writing. The Speaker suggested, that the more regular way of proceeding would be to move the reading of the order upon the journals for Mr. Hunt's attendance this day, and in case of his non-attendance then to lay the letter before the House, being first certified as the hand-writing of Mr. Hunt. This was accordingly done, Mr. Long having declared the hand-writing to be that of Mr. Hunt. The letter was then delivered to, and read by the clerk as follows: Lisbon, 6th May, 1810. Sir ; I have received at this place the Twelfth Report of the Commissioners of military enquiry, in which, equally to my concern as astonishment, from the imperfect materials before them, they have supposed a balance against me of,83,7691. 19s. 5d. a sum far beyond any amount in which I am indebted to the public, or, consistently with the course of Ordnance payments, could be indebted.-The commissioners feeling it expedient, as they express it, to make an immediate report were obliged to compile it in haste, and have, much to my prejudice, omitted many explanations I afforded them, which I conceived should have been noticed, although the allowance of them might have been subject of future consideration.The Report, in many respects, is evidently inaccurate. The Commissioners have drawn many conclusions against me from imperfect information, and for want of time to investigate many parts of the account which they could not understand themselves, and respecting which they re[EXPULSION OF MR. HUNT.] Mr. Cal- quired general and more correct testimony. craft rose, in pursuance of a notice, he had-To shew you the character of Mr. Rudgiven upon a former day, relative to Mr. dick's Evidence, he says he gave security Hunt, a member of that House, and lately for 10,000l. for the faithful discharge of treasurer of the ordnance. But before he his services, but who never gave me any. should proceed upon the subject of his no-It is impossible for me to go into the tice, he felt it necessary to acquaint the House that he had received, within these few days, a letter, dated Lisbon, the 16th of April, subscribed with the signature of Mr. Hunt, purporting to come from him, and immediately relating to the subject of the motion he meant to bring forward. It was his wish to submit this letter to the House; but as he could not himself vouch for its authenticity, he wished to submit. it first to the inspection of some gentleman HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, May 23. VOL. XVII. whole report; but I have in a single moment upon the face of the account, discovered items amounting to not less than 20,000l. which I know to be erroneously charged against me; and it having been surmised by the commissioners that I might have received more on the volun tary account than I have brought forward to the public credit, which remark lays me open to the suspicion of being deficient to an undefined amount, I can, in M [2] I trust the House would favourably receive my request; which is, that the Commissioners of military enquiry have expressed an intention of entering more fully into the consideration of what was the conduct of business in the office of Treasurer of the ordnance; and I intreat, therefore, that this further information may be waited for, and that a Resolution may not pass against me upon the imperfect report at present before the House.-I have only to return you my best acknowledgments for the great delicacy you have shewn towards me consistently with your public duty; in the manner in which you have introduced the subject of my conduct before the House, which if it shall be pleased to wave my attendance for a while, may rely that I will not abuse indulgence, or disappoint expecta tion.-I have the honour to be, &c. JOSEPH HUNT." London. answer to this remark, distinctly state, that not a shilling upon voluntary charge came into my hands which was not accounted for, in most instances immediately and not quarterly; and in fact, regulations which I found it highly necessary to adopt in respect to this account, made it impossible I should receive a shilling of it in an indirect or clandestine manner. I lament that I have not time to afford you some explanatory observations on some other parts of the Report; I am only enabled to state to you generally that I am not indebted to the public the amount imputed to me; and whatever may be ascribed to me in respect to the incorrect manner of transacting public business, yet it will appear by the present Report, page 55, that I did not act upon a deliberate attempt or design to defraud the public, as I left in the office the sum of 7,2571. 9s. 4d. of which I had the absolute disposal, and two days afterwards I paid 4,0007. into the Bank of England on account of my supposed balance.-It occasions me deep regret, that I should have imprudently withdrawn myself at all, from the investigation of my accounts, but which I inadvertently did from the prejudice excited against me, by the exaggerated reports circulated in respect to the amount of deficiency, from the publicity given to my examination before the commissioners of Military enquiry, on which though the investigation was only pending, a thousand erroneous statements were founded, so as materially to affect my feelings. Under the present circumstances of my situation, and the state of my health, I find myself incapable of attending the ho-health. During the Easter recess he had nourable House, and my anxious request a conversation with a respectable relation is to have some indulgence in point of of his, who applied for an extension of time. I flatter myself, that consistently time; to this he replied he had no objecwith your regard for the interests and opi- tion, provided the attendance of Mr. Hunt nions of the country, you may feel at liberty was insured before the session closed. It to wave for a period your motion for my was of importance to the general welfare, attendance in my place; I should hope, to make an example of defaulters. An that neither the House or yourself would act had been passed to restrict the Trearegret such an attention to me, as I am surer of the Ordnance to draw on the actuated by the most sincere desire of Bank unless for the public; that law had affording every satisfaction in my power been carried into effect with the greatest to the public, but to effect which purpose propriety by Mr. Davison, the former it is necessary I should have a reasonable Treasurer. A short time after Mr. Hunt extension of time for my going through came into office, he began to draw on the the accounts; in doing which, I am sure, bank in the names of persons who were I could satisfactorily remove some of the connected with the ordnance. In this irprejudices inferred against me in the re-regular way he drew 100,000l. a great port, while I should be able, certainly to establish articles of discharge in my favour, not included in the present state of the account. There is another ground on which Mr. Calcraft then moved, that the 12th report of military enquiry should be taken into consideration. (The report was entered as read.) He observed, that notwithstanding the statements in the letter, they did not rebut the violation of an act of parliament for the regulation of public offices. Six weeks had elapsed since he first called the attention of the House to this subject, in that time the intelligence would have reached Lisbon, and Mr. Hunt might have returned; it did not appear in fact that he was in a state of ill part of which he owes to the public. With respect to the manner in which he intended now acting, he had looked over the Journals and found that the only mode of carrying the sentence into effect. He defied any man to find an objection to this right of committal. The House had now, however, come to the question as to the right of supporting it. What, he could wish to know, was the committee ap the House had of proceeding when members were guilty (not immediately of the present crime but of perjury and other flagrant misdemeanors) was by expulsion. Since Mr. Hunt had left the country, he should move for his expulsion; if he had remained, he should rather have proceed-pointed for, but to report on the state of ed by indictment, and then have acted ac- the proceedings? Instead, however, of cordingly. He did not believe there were shewing themselves equal to this purpose, two opinions on the subject. He was the House had seen its privileges intrusted sorry to say, that many similar occur- to a Junta more imbecile than the Junta rences had not been taken notice of by the of Spain. What should have been their House. He should mention that of gene- conduct? They should have reported that ral de Lancey, who was indebted to the it was proper to call before the House the public 100,000l. and yet possessed the rank solicitor who had issued the process. Did and pay of a general in the service. By our ancestors feel any difficulty on this such things the public feelings were in-head? They never did. And as to the sulted. It was rather remarkable, that acts were passed for the very prevention of such conduct immediately previous to its taking place. If they were not now enforced, the vigilance of public offices would be lulled asleep. In the Board of Ordnance, there must have been some supineness in not taking notice of what was going on in its neighbourhood. He concluded by moving the following resolution, "That Joseph Hunt, esq. late treasurer of the orduance, had been guilty of a violation of the act of the 46th of his Majesty, for regulating the office of treasurer of the ordnance, and of embezzling or misapplying certain sums of public money whilst he held that office." Also, a Resolution, "That for the said offences Joseph Hunt, esq. be expelled this House.' ."-Both which motions were agreed to, nem. con.; the word " embezzling" having been first left out of the former resolution at the suggestion of the chancellor of the exchequer. [SECOND REPORT ON PROCEEDINGS RESPECTING SIR F. BURDETT'S NOTICES.] Mr. D. Giddy having moved for leave to bring up this Report, Sir T. Turton opposed it, stating it to be his wish to rescue the House out of hands to which it had most improperly and unadvisedly entrusted its privileges, hands in which he had thought them most unwisely and unhappily placed from the beginning to the end. The matter had originated in the committal of Mr. Gale Jones, and when the motion to mitigate the punishment against that individual came to be considered, he was punished for the fault of his advocate. He disapproved of the committal of the hon. bart., but after the determination of the House, he could entertain no doubt as to its power rights of the Serjeant, acting, as he must Mr. C. W. Wynn agreed with many of the observations of the hou. bart., and regretted that he had not opposed the proceedings earlier. He was particularly sorry, that the Attorney-General should have been instructed to support the privileges of the House. That gentleman must, at all times, be ready to be called to the House of Lords; and, if it were only for the sake of form, he regretted, that another person had not been appointed to support the privileges of the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the arguments now used, would have applied better, if used at the time the House was about to resolve on the appointment of the committee, and at that time when the learned argument of a right hon. gent. not now present (Mr. Ponsonby), went so forcibly to recommend the pleading to the action. He must also regret, that the hon. and learned gentlemen who now disapproved of the report, had not lent their |