this trade into the treaty, than to make it
the subject of a separate negociation. He
agreed with the noble lord with respect to
the disposition of the planters of Jamaica
to pay a strict obedience to the act of abo-
lition, and that being the case, there could
be no difficulty as to the other islands.
The Address was agreed to nem. dis.
[DISSENTERS.] Viscount Sidmouth ad-

was known, was not ratified, but the American legislature subsequently passed a law for the abolition of this trade. He was of opinion that an arrangement might be adjusted in a satisfactory manner with America, by which a mutual power of executing the laws of each country might be established, by which all the inhabitants of the United States, who acted in defiance of the laws of their own country in carry-verted to the intention he had formerly ing on this trade under a foreign flag should be liable to capture by British ships of war, and all those persons here who carried on the trade in a similar manner, and who were equally traitors to the laws of their country, should be also liable to capture by American vessels. He was extremely anxious that some pledge should be given by the House of its desire for the general abolition of this inhuman traffic, feeling that the government in its applications to foreign powers for this most desirable purpose would have those applications much strengthened by the determination of the people of the United Kingdom being expressed through their legal organs, the two Houses of Parliament, and being convinced that if once all the powers of Europe had agreed upon the abolition of this abominable trade, that no state would afterwards venture again to establish it, as no individual could be found base and degraded enough to propose it. He was the more anxious upon this point, observing how little had been done, and how much there remained to be done, to effect an object of so much importance to humanity and justice. Before he sat down, he wished to do justice to the island of Jamaica, in stating that he believed the planters of that island had in general paid a strict obedience to the act of abolition, and had not attempted to evade it. His lordship concluded by moving an Address to his Majesty, praying that further steps might be taken to induce foreign powers to abolish this trade.

The Earl of Liverpool had no objection to the motion; he had always agreed upon the principle of obtaining the consent of other powers to the abolition of this trade, and every effort had been made by ministers to effect this object. With respect to Sweden, which was the only apparently doubtful point, the fact was, that previous to the circumstances which had lately happened, a negociation was on foot for a commercial treaty with that power, and it was thought better to introduce an article relative to the abolition of

expressed of bringing forward in the course of the session, some motion relative to the mode of granting licences to Dissenting Teachers. He thought it a subject of considerable importance, as under the present mode of executing the acts, if a person presented himself to the justices at the quarter sessions, and took the oath of allegiance, and subscribed the declaration required by law, he was entitled of right to a certificate, which entitled him, whatever might be his age, whatever might be his ignorance, or whatever might be his depravity, to preach and teach any doctrines he pleased, and which entitled him also, whether he did preach or teach or not, to exemption from parochial offices, and from services in the militia. This, his lordship considered as an abuse to which a remedy ought to be applied. He had, however, upon mature consideration, determined to postpone till next sessions, the bringing forward any motion upon the subject. He wished it, at the same time, to be distinctly understood, that he meant nothing hostile to the Dissenters. He considered the toleration act as the palladium of religious liberty, and had not the slightest intention of proposing any in fringement of it.

Earl Stanhope was conscious of the irre gularity of taking up the time of the House in speaking upon notices. But he could not refrain from noticing the manner in which the noble viscount had occupied their time without condescending to explain the nature of the motion he intended to make, and of which he had given so long a notice. The noble viscount had spoke of the age, the character, and the learning which ought to exist in those to whom licences were granted. Upon these several requisites, he should be glad to know how the noble viscount would fix the mode of ascertaining their different propositions? For instance, what nostrum would the noble viscount prescribe, by which their lordships should ascertain the quantity of learning necessary in a dissenter before the license was granted.

Viscount Sidmouth thought he had sufficiently explained the reasons which had guided his conduct upon the present occasion. But, from the remarks made by the noble earl, he was induced to state more particularly the nature of those measures which he had it in contemplation to propose. The chief object he had in view was to require from the person intending to act under such a license, a certificate from the congregation or sect to whom he belonged, that he was a competent person, in their opinion, to the discharge of the duty of a preacher, and that it was by their recommendation he applied for the licence. If such a guard were placed against the abuses of toleration, it would not only be beneficial to those under the Established Church, but, he had authority to say, it would meet the approbation of the general part of the Dis

senters.

relief of the poorer Clergy might be effected in a manner much less objectionable than adding to the burdens of the people, by means of the higher benefices, either by taxing them in certain proportions, or in some other mode, and that certain benefices, where no duty was attached, might be suspended, and the profits appropriated to a fund for the relief of the poorer Clergy; some regulations might also be made with respect to livings in the gift of the crown.

The Earl of Harrowby began by expressing his pleasure at the declaration of the noble lord (Holland), that if the proposal now made had comprehended any plan for the more permanent advantage of the church, he should not oppose it.

Before he proceeded to state the facts of the case, which in his opinion made an irresistible call upon the liberality of Parliament, he would take notice of some of the noble lord's objections. The time, it was said, was unpropitious. Undoubt. edly it was so, if we considered only the great extent of our present burthens; but this consideration did not prevent us from supplying every necesssary demand, not even the demands of taste and splendour: neither ought it therefore to deter us from applying the money of the public to the relief of the church, if that relief was proved to be necesary.

Lord Holland was sorry irregularly to intrude himself upon the notice of their lordships, when no motion was before them; but he thought the noble viscount would have subjected himself to consider able misunderstanding, had he not more explicitly defined the precise object of his intended motion. With regard to himself, he so much valued the blessings enjoyed under the toleration act, that the allegation or recommendation of any individual would never induce him to alter the pro- The mode of applying relief was also visions. The inconveniences resulting stated to be unsatisfactory. The noble from that act must be of uncommon injury, lord had disclaimed, all suspicion of abuse. before he should be satisfied in concurring-In truth there was not the least ground with such an alteration..

[POOR CLERGY.] The House resolved itself into a Committee on the Appropriation bill.

Lord Holland objected to the appropriation of 100,000l. to Queen Anne's Bounty for the poorer clergy. He thought the present a most unpropitious season for such a grant, at a time when burdens pressed so heavily upon the people. Another objection was, that it was a mere temporary grant, aud did not form part of any permanent system for ameliorating the situation of the poorer clergy, nor was he satisfied with the mode in which the money granted for this purpose was applied. He did not mean to cast the slightest reflection upon the governors of Queen Anne's Bounty; on the contrary, he believed that no abuse existed in the management of the funds of that establishment; but he objected to the mode of the application, He thought that the

for suspicion, as the distribution was made by lot, and the interest of the surplus fund was regularly accounted for, and added from time to time to the amount of the bounty. This surplus arose from the excess of the interest received from money vested in the stocks, beyond the two per cent. paid to each augmented living, till land was purchased. He agreed, however, with the noble lord, that the mode of distribution might be improved. The account upon the table would show the improvements made in the last year. No living had been augmented (except in consequence of benefactions) of which the present value exceeded 601. a year, and by notice in the Gazette, it had been declared, that in cases where the incumbent did not reside, the bounty should accumulate for the benefit of the living, until it had a resident incumbent. The accounts of the population of all parishes, where the income of the clergyman does not exceed

150l., per annum, had since suggested a further improvement, which he trusted would be adopted, viz. that parishes of large population should not only have a priority, but a larger share of the bounty. It was not necessary to apply to Parliament for an alteration in the rules of the governors, the King by his sign manual, had authority to change them.

however, was not whether the income of the church was better, or worse, than at a former period, but whether it was now such as required assistance.

The noble lord also appeared to differ from him in opinion as to the source from whence this assistance should be derived. He thought that some tax should be imposed upon the higher clergy; but exIt was further said that the measure was pressed a willingness, if the produce, of incomplete; this was undoubtedly true, such tax should be found insufficient, to and no man regretted it more than himself. | supply the deficiency out of the general It had been hoped that some more com- revenue of the state. He also hinted at prehensive measure might have been sub- the suspension, for a time, of the disposal mitted to Parliament this session: but it of some of the preferments in the gift of was a subject of great extent, and consi- the crown (whether dignities only, or derable difficulty, and more information benefices also, was not quite clear), for was necessary. He agreed with the noble the purpose of appropriating their inlord that, before Parliament could be comes to the same object. The first obcalled upon to pledge itself, to the con- jection to a general tax upon the higher. tinuance of an annual grant of 100,000l. clergy, in which the parochial clergy until all things should be raised to 150l. were included, was this:-About threeor even to 100l. per annum, it would be fifths of the livings in this country were indispensible that some more compre-in lay patronage, and the advowsons were hensive measures should be proposed, in a part of the estates of the proprietors, order to secure to the public the fair re-bought and sold like other estates for a ward of its munificence, a real and substantial improvement of the ecclesiastical establishment. But this was not necessary to induce it to adopt a temporary measure, which applied to relief of a class of persons, whose claims required only to be stated in order to be admitted, and whose relief was equally indispensable, whether any further measures were adopted or not. The noble lord had also expressed a doubt, whether the state of the church were not much improved, in point of income, since the time of queen Anne, not only because there were now fewer poor livings, but because the property of the church had increased in value, and had been better collected, It was true that in queen Anne's time there were between 5 and 6,000 livings under 50l. per annum, and that now there were not much more than 1,000 under that value, and not above 4,000 under 150l. per annum. Such had, however, been the depreciation of money, since that period, that even this statement did not prove decisively any considerable increase, in the real value of those benefices. The improvements alluded to had taken place upon large livings, where the parson had the great tithes; of those which were still under 1501. per annum, almost the whole number were either vicarages, capable of little improvement, or perpetual curacies which admitted of none. The main question,

VOL. XVII.

valuable consideration, upon the faith that they were only subject to taxation in common with other estates; there could be no justice in selecting these particular estates to bear exclusively a burthen which, if necessary for the general good, ought to fall equally upon all. The taxing the higher clergy, for the relief of the poorer class, was also an approach towards the principle of levelling. He had always thought that the inequality of preferment was a great advantage, and intimately connected with an episcopal establishment. The extremes might be too distant, and he thought they were so, as they stood at present; not so much because the highest were too high, which he doubted, but because the lowest were too low. The latter evil he trusted we were preparing to remedy; the former, if it were an evil, could not be altered without introducing far greater evils than he was prepared to encounter. Any tax of this description would, pro tanto, equalize benefices, and remove, pro tanto, the incitement to diligence, and the reward of distinction. If it were confined to livings in the gift of the crown, or of the bishops, in order to avoid the injustice of an attack upon private property, it would be applied to that very class of livings in which its operation would be most injurious. Livings in private patronage were usually disposed of to the friends, relations, or pri

3 C

vate connections, of the patron. Those | one in Preston, there was a population of in the gift of the crown, and of the bishops above 208,000 persons. The revenue of formed the chief fund for that inticement, the church, in these three parishes, was and for those rewards. It was so certainly 1,3154 amounting to about id per ann. in theory, and to a considerable degree in per soul. In Wolverhampton, Coventry, practice. The application, therefore, to Sunderland, and Newcastle, there were that class, of any principle tending to cases fully as strong. Taking 492 as the equalization, was more to be deprecated, number of parishes, of which the populaupon these grounds, than its application to tion exceeded 1,000, and the income did any other. As to the suspension, for a not exceed 1501. per annum (exclusive of time, of the profits of certain dignities, it Birmingham and Halifax, in which the would really be so unproductive, in point population of the different parishes was of amount, if confined to a few, and so not distinguished), these 492 livings comsubversive of a constituent part of our prebended near 1,200,000 persons, and present establishment, if extended to the aggregate revenue of the church was many, that he was not willing to borrow only 42,046l. It appeared, therefore, from the Roman Catholic church, even from the consideration of the population, for the relief of the poor, a practice which which had not been under our view last she has usually adopted for enriching the year, that the case was much stronger 'affluent. than it could then be stated; at least, that if the poverty was not greater upon the whole, it was greater in a class, whose labours were most severe, and upon whose labours the care of so large a mass of population depended. In stating the whole income of the church, in these 492 parishes, to amount only to 42,000!. their lordships must be aware, that he had far over-stated the actual incomes of those who performed these labours, because half at least of these parishes might be supposed to be held by non-resident incumbents, who would of course leave to their curates only a part of the profits of their livings.

Having noticed the principal points of lord Holland's speech, he proceeded to state the case of the poorer clergy; which he contended appeared, from the information received since last year, to be still stronger than it was then stated. The whole number indeed of livings under 150. a year, which was then calculated at | 4,400, appeared, since the returns from St. David's, Norwich, Ely, and Rochester, were come in, not to exceed 4,000. This was satisfactory, as it brought complete relief more within our reach. But it had been generally supposed that the poor livings were chiefly confined to parishes in which the population was inconsiderable, He had stated that the returns as they and the duty light; remote villages, where appeared this year brought complete rewe wished certainly to give the clergy-lief more within our reach. It was cal man a better income, because it was not fitting that he should receive less than a day labourer, but where his poverty was out of sight, and did not affect the interests of any considerable portion of the community. If such a supposition had been entertained, the accounts, now upon the table, would prove its error. Of the whole number of livings under 150l. per annum there were above 600 which in (1801) had a population of between 500 and 1,000 persons, and near 500 livings, with a population of above 1,000. Of these 79 had between 2 and 3,000-35 between 3 and 4,000-17 between 4 and 5,000—10 between 5 and 6,000-and a considerable number much more; perhaps the strongest instance was in the diocese of Chester. In 15 parishes, of which six were in Liverpool, four in Manchester, three in Whitehaven, two in Oldham, one in Warrington, one in Blackburn, and

culated last year, that upon the supposition of 4,400 livings under 150l. per ann. and of the bounty, old and new, being 111,500l. per annum, and laid out so as to produce 5 per cent. it would require about 2,750,000l. to raise all livings to 1001. per annum, in about 25 years, and 3,877,000. more to raise them all to 150l. per annum, in 35 years more. The number of livings under 501. was now, according to the returns, 1,054; between 50 and 1007. 1,720; in all under 100l. 2,774; between 100l. and 150/. 1,223; in all under 1501. 3,997. The surplus interest, which was not included in that calculation, might perhaps, as the number of augmentations would increase, be safely taken at between 8 and 9,000l. per annum. If the whole sum, applied to augment poor livings, were increased, by these means, to 120,000l. per annum, it would raise all livings to 100l. per annum, in about 21