House the state of things in the north he would read an extract from the speech of Lord Brougham in moving the second reading of the New Poor Law Act on the 21st of July, 1834, showing the effect of the relief in aid of wages system in the south. That noble and learned Lord said "Parish allowance is far worse than any dole of private charity; because it is more likely to be abused; because it is more certain in its nature, because it is better known, more established -because it approaches in the mind of the poor to the idea of a right. This terrible system has led, among other evil consequences, to the Act of 1796, which provided for the relief of the poor in their own houses, and was, in fact, the introduction of the allowance scheme-a scheme which provided for the partial payment of wages out of the poor rates, and which in its operation has heen productive of all the worst mischief that might have been expected from such a source. I will not say that many farms have been actually abandoned. I will not say that many parishes have been wholly given up to waste for want of occupants-(I know that there are instances of farms here and there, and of one parish in the county of Bucks, I think, which has been the system has so worked as to lay waste any reduced to this state)-I will not say that as yet of civilization, are essential to promote health, | Before he brought under the notice of the cleanliness, and general convenience." He saw in the Leeds Intelligencer of last Saturday that eighteen persons were living in two rooms, there being a large accumulation of vegetable and other decaying matter in a cellar beneath, and the two medical officers under the Board of Guardians declared before the magistrates that a more disgraceful place was scarcely to be found in the town, the qualifying word "scarcely" showing that there were other equally disgraceful places in Leeds. He did not bring this matter forward as a charge against the authorities of Leeds, as he had no doubt those persons had done their best to put a stop to such a state of things, but merely to show that so long as there were different grades among the poor, some-it might be, perhaps, the idle, the dissolute, and the drunken-would crowd together in unwholesome places. If blame were not to be attached to the town of Leeds, surely none ought to be thrown upon the inhabitants of agricultural districts in the event of similar cases being discovered. What right, therefore, had the right hon. Gentleman deliberately and continuously throughout his speech to make a series of charges against the agricultural districts for permitting a state of things which they had no power to alter? would not pursue that part of the subject further, as doubtless hon. Members representing agricultural districts were fully capable of defending themselves from the aspersions of the right hon. Gentleman. He would, therefore, proceed to the subject of which he had given more immediate notice. But first he must remind the House that the right hon. Gentleman, in moving the second reading of his Bill, said, "The parochial system is very dangerous to property. He would remind the right hon. Gentleman how the New Poor Law had been administered in the manufacturing districts. The New Poor Law of 1834 was passed to put a stop to relief in aid of wages in the agricultural districts in the south of England at a time when such a system was unknown in the north. In consequence of the vast increase in labouring populations the guardians of the poor in the north were afterwards compelled to introduce the system. Thus, the result of the New Poor Law of 1834, which was professedly founded upon uniformity of system and unity of practice, was that the system of relief in aid of wages was abolished in the south and made the rule in the north. Mr. Ferrand He considerable portion of territory. That it has a direct and necessary tendency to do so; that unless its progress be arrested it must go on till it gain that point-that before long we must reach the brink of the precipice towards which we are hurrying with accelerated rapidity; that the circumstance of one parish being thrown out of cultivation inevitably and immediately tends to lay three or four others waste, and that this devastation, gathering strength as it proceeds, must needs cover the land. Of these facts no man who consults the body of evidence before your Lordships can entertain the shadow of a doubt. Stand where we are we cannot."-[3 Hansard, xxv. 222, 230.] Now, if the Bill were referred to a Select Committee, he pledged his word to bring evidence to show that the relief system in aid of wages was carried on in the manufacturing districts of the north to a far greater extent than it had ever been prac tised in the south when the noble and learned Lord made his speech. Before 1834, when the Act was passed, the name of "pauper was, in his (Mr. Ferrand's) district, regarded as a disgrace, whereas, now, not the slightest shame appeared to be attached to it, and relief in aid of wages was demanded by the working classes as a right. He would now explain how it was that this system had been adopted. Trade became depressed, and mills worked short time. The operatives went to the mill on Monday morning at six o'clock, and found the door closed. They were told that there was no warp or no weft, and that they must come again in four or five days; but the same state of things frequently continued for weeks. This threw the people upon the union. In other cases mills were running short time, say three days a week; and he would state a case :— A man, who had a wife and six children, worked in a factory during the three days and earned 6s. He went to the Board of Guardians and said that he had come for his allowance. The Board said they would allow 2s. a week each for the husband and wife, and 1s. 6d. for each of the children under sixteen; making in all 13s. The man had earned 6s., and they ordered the relieving officer to give him 78., to make up the 13s. That was the regular system upon which the poor in the north were relieved, and he wished to know whether anything worse had ever existed in the southern agricultural districts previous to 1834. It often happened that the mills were closed for one, two, or three months, owing to depression of trade, and during that period the people were still living in their mill cottages. They were maintained by outdoor relief. It very often happened that a man was ordered to break stones before receiving relief; but if this were suggested in reference to a faithful servant and high spirited man, some of the Guardians under the parochial system would know him, and would say, "Don't send that man to the stone heaps, it will break his heart; give him his relief and let him go home." He had himself repeatedly pressed this course upon the Guardians. Again, when trade was flourishing the workmen might strike, and the whole of the time during which they continued out of work they lived in their cottages upon the poor rate. The result was that the children became ill from want of sufficient food, the medical officer was called in, and thus additional expense was cast on the fund for the relief of the poor. Moreover, the cost of all the sick, crippled and diseased paupers, connected with manufactures caused a fearfully heavy drain on the poor rate. He had received from the relieving officer of the parish of Bingley, in which he resided, a Return of the number of people who had received relief from the poor rate in aid of wages or because they had no work, and the relieving officer stated that he had been relieving officer since April, 1857, and that during that time, to the best of his knowledge, a purely agricultural labourer in that parish had never become chargeable to the poor rate. The Return included the names of Moses Rhodes, wool-comber, earning 78., and who was relieved to the extent of £3 58. on account of insufficient earnings; Joseph Pickles, twister, no work, relief granted £2 168.; George Ratcliffe, powerloom weaver, no work, relief £1 16s.; Henry Holstead, power-loom weaver, no work, relief £4 1s. 8d. He could give several other instances, but he would not take up the time of the House in so doing. He would now read to the House the rules of the Guardians of Keighley, which were these— "Rules of relief in Keighly Union-Able-bodied paupers, as regards relief given by the Guardians when out of work is a little varied, but, as a rule, 28. each for the heads of the family, and 1s. 6d. Relief given in aid of wages earned by the family each for the children under sixteen years of age. when the head of the family is out of work or short of work, is much the same as the above, but it is difficult to define the exact sum given in all cases. Able-bodied paupers, (when the application is on account of no work) work at labour test, as stone breakers at present." He (Mr. Ferrand) had asked for Returns in reference to the payments in aid of wages in two unions in the manufacturing districts, but the right hon. Gentleman had not allowed him to have that portion of the Return which referred to that matter. MR. C. P. VILLIERS said, the hon. Gentleman knew he did not refuse; he knew who did refuse the information, and he had the letter in his hand. MR. FERRAND was going to read the Return which had been drawn up in the right hon. Gentleman's own office. The right hon. Gentleman had allowed a Return of the amount paid in relief of the poor, in maintenance and out-relief, dis tinguishing the classes of persons relieved; but why was the relief paid in aid of wages not given? It was because the right hon. Gentleman knew that the adoption of such a system was illegal; and that the foul blot of relief in aid of wages was fixed upon the north of England to a greater extent than it ever had been upon the south. The right hon. Gentleman was quite right in saying that this part of the Return was refused by the Boards of Guardians, and what did the clerk of one of the unions (Bradford) say? He said that the applications for relief were contained in about 150 books, each comprising about 200 pages, and this extended over the period to which the Return moved for applied, fourteen years. The clerk of the Keighley Union said that the Guardians passed a resolution that it was impossible | out-relief, £84,848; for all other purposes, to make the Return because the books £86,857. In Horton, population 30,189, containing the information were of the ag- the amount paid for in-maintenance was gregate thickness of five yards. Now, no £7,736; for out-relief, £34,047; for all doubt, a large majority of the applications other purposes, £32.989. In Manningwere for relief in aid of wages. So far as ham, population 12,889, there was paid he was able, from a Return placed on the for in-maintenance, £1,653; for out-relief, table of the House by the right hon. Gen- £10,058; for all other purposes, £13,887. tleman, he would state the amount of Altogether the in-door relief, in the Bradmoney expended from 1849 to 1862 for ford Union was £34,926; the out was indoor and outdoor relief and other pur- £144,199; the expenditure for all other poses in the Keighley Union, which con- purposes, £150,944. Thus the Bradford sisted of six townships, in three of which Union, with a manufacturing population of manufactures preponderated, and in the 106,000, spent in fourteen years £35,000 other three agriculture preponderated. in in-maintenance, and £144,000 in outThe population of the six townships was relief-four times as much in out-relief as 43,122; and in the township of Bing-in in-maintenance. The Keighley Union, ley, the population of which was 13,254, with a large manufacturing and a conthe sum expended during the fourteen siderable agricultural population of 43,000, years from 1849 for in-maintenance was spent in the same period £8,000 in £2,744; for out-relief, £23,413, and in-maintenance, and £89,000 in outfor all other purposes, £17,446. In relief, being eleven times more for outthe township of Haworth, with a popula- relief than for in-maintenance. This was tion of 5,896, the amount paid for in- a startling result of the system of relief maintenance during these fourteen years in aid of wages, and it was shown by the was £1,190; for out-relief, £19,387; the Return of the right hon. Gentleman him. amount paid for all other purposes being self. He would test this with another £8.686. In the Keighley Union, with a statement. He had taken three prosperous population of 18,819, the amount paid for years and three depressed years in each in-maintenance was £3,670; for out- union, for the purpose of showing the House relief, £36,723; poor rate for all other the great comparative rise in the amount purposes, £24,515. Altogether the in- of out-relief in the three depressed years. maintenance was £7,604; the out, In the Keighley Union, in 1855-57, three £79,533. That was a startling fact con- depressed years, the in-maintenance was nected with the relief in aid of wages. £1,851, the out, £24,794; in 1860-62, These were the three townships in which three prosperous years, the in-maintenance manufactures preponderated. He now came was £1,810, the out, £17,591, showing an to the three agricultural townships, in all of increase in the in-maintenance in the dewhich there were mills. In Morton, with pressed years of £41, but of the out-relief a population of 2,113, the amount paid for of £7,203. In the Bradford Union, in in-maintenance was £556; for out-door the three same years of depression, the relief, £3,510; for all other purposes in maintenance was £11,980, the out£2,865. In Steeton, with a population of relief, £39,056; in the same three years 1,341, for in-maintenance, £71; for out- of prosperity, the in-maintenance was door relief, £1,970; for all other purposes, £7,584, the out-relief, £20,869, showing £2,375. In Sutton, with a population of an increase of the in-maintenance in the 1,699, for in-maintenance, £128; for out years of depressed trade of £4,476, of the door relief, £4,610; for all other purposes, out relief of £18,187. The right hon. £2,624. For fourteen years, then, the Gentleman proposed to extend this reliefin-maintenance was £8,358; for out, in-aid-of-wages system into the agricultural £89,623, or eleven times as much. He districts of the union, and while the Bill came now to the Bradford Union, in which had been under discussion, a letter appeared there were four townships, with a popula- in the Standard, headed "Union Chargetion of 106,218. In the township of ability Bill," in which the writer confirmed Bowling there was a population of 14,494; his views. He contended that this would the amount paid for in-maintenance was be disastrous to the ratepayers there. If £2,189; for out-door relief, £15,246; it had not been for the parochial sysfor all other purposes, £17,211. In tem, and if the guardians had not been Bradford, population 48,646, the amount well acquainted with the applicants for paid for in-maintenance was £23,348; for aid in each parish, the startling amounts Mr. Ferrand he had mentioned would have been much on him for a double or treble rate for the greater than they were. Suppose a relief of the manufacturing population of union rating existed. In that case, in- a town perhaps ten or fifteen miles off, and stead of having mills closed for three or that demand took the last shilling from four days a week they would be closed his pocket, and left him a pauper, it would altogether, because the masters would be no laughing matter. But this Bill, if have their work people paid from the funds it became law, would bring such misery of the whole union instead of from the and distresss on the heads of thousands. rates of the township in which their At present, while land was rated at its mill was rated. The right hon. Gen- full annual value, mills and manufactories tleman was now propounding doctrines were assessed at a much smaller amount. very different from those used by him He would trouble the House with a statetwenty or twenty-five years ago, when he ment with regard to two mills and with denounced the conduct of the agriculturists regard to 225 acres of land as affected by as selfish. How often had he heard the rates. The first mill was rated at the right hon. Gentleman taunt the agricultural annual value of £659, and to the rateable interest, and tell them they were whining value upon which it paid the rates only for protection, and had no business to tax £494, or £165 less than the real annual the towns for the benefit of the agricultural value. That mill employed 800 hands. interest. He remembered Mr. Cobden The second mill was rated at £567, and declaring that all the manufacturers the rateable value of £401 or £166 required was to be let alone, and they less than the real value. That mill emwould feed and pay their own work people.ployed 750 hands. The 225 acres were But on the 25th of June, 1844, the right rated at the annual value of £450, and hon. Gentleman said—and this was the the rateable value also was £450, while hardest nut ever given the agricultural the workpeople employed were about twenty interest to crack-" No right can be in number. The farmer had to pay towards allowed to any portion of the public to en- the hands employed in one mill, 800 in force taxation on the rest.” But what number; in the other, 750. The land was the Bill before the House? Why a was rated at the full value, the mills at Bill to enable towns to tax the agricultural two-thirds. This was a fair reason why districts. To-night he (Mr. Ferrand) re- the right hon. Gentleman should consent torted and said, "Let not the towns tax to the appointment of a Select Committee. the country districts." Free trade was But the farms in the manufacturing disestablished in 1846 on the compact that tricts were to a great extent on poor land, manufactures and agriculture should hence- which had been often taken on improving forth bear their respective burdens. But leases at low rents. Many of them were what did the right hon. Gentleman require? enclosed forty or fifty years ago on the He asked Parliament to violate that compact waste wolds, many were on hills, exposed by the Bill now before the House. For to severe frosts and heavy storms, with the Bill was one to allow towns to tax little labour employed on them; and these agriculture by levying on the agriculturists farms were to be liable to be rated for the a rate in aid of the wages of the manu- distress in the manufacturing districts. facturers. There was a general impression These farms would never have been abroad that before long there would be a brought into cultivation had this progreat stagnation in Yorkshire. His hon. posed taxation of them been for a moment Friend the Member for Bradford laughed, imagined. But it was not the landed inbut what would be the result, if the terest alone that would suffer from this price of cotton dropped to sixpence a Bill. There was a large number of mills pound, to the woollen trade? He would scattered over the agricultural districts, not be surprised to find the agricultural some worked by mountain streams, others districts called on for an enormous amount by small engines, and here the manufacof money to aid the manufacturers in turers served their apprenticeship, and feeding their factory hands. This would having obtained a little money, started in lead to confiscation in the agricultu- the towns. But this Bill would tax these ral districts. If this Bill passed, it would small mills in the country for the benefit produce an immense amount of envy, of the larger manufacturers in such towns hatred, and malice. He did not know as Bradford and Halifax. The right why the hon. Member laughed. Suppose hon. Gentleman had spoken of the towns he was a farmer, and the overseer called as having high rates to pay. But if they had they drained all the money of the surrounding districts, because the labourers came into the towns on the Saturday night and spent their wages there. Before he sat down he would just call the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to the case of the North Byerley Union, which extended nearly twenty miles in length. One portion of it run up into the Moor districts, and the other down to the densely populated neighbourhoods of Leeds and Bradford. The effect of the operation of this Bill would be that the small farmers and manufacturers in the neighbourhood of the moorlands would have to pay for the relief of the poor in the Low Moor Iron Works, which did not contribute anything towards the poor rates. He entreated the right hon. Gentleman to allow the Bill to be sent to a Select Committee, before which the system of granting relief in aid of wages, which was a violation of the law, could be thoroughly investigated. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the words "That the" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "the Bill be committed to a Select Committee," (Mr. Thompson,) -instead thereof. Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." of the Keighley Union three were agricul tural and three manufacturing. It would be, however, difficult to find a district more completely manufacturing than the whole six townships. The hon. Member asserted that the three townships which he called agricultural would be rather more heavily taxed after the passing of this Bill than they were at present. He had, however, gone through the Return, and he found that the three townships which the hon. Gentleman called agricultural were at the present rather more heavily taxed than the three he called manufacturing. He had received from the clerk of the Board of Guardians at Bradford a letter explicitly denying that the practice of giving relief in aid of wages ever existed during the fifteen years he had been in office, and this was confirmed by the three relieving officers. Mr. Farnall, who was at one time officially connected with the district, fully bore out this statement. He (Mr. W. E. Forster) was chairman of the Board of Guardians some years ago, and no such practice prevailed then. The hon. Member gave three or four instances in which relief had been given in aid of wages "or to men out of work " at Bingley. There was, however, an enormous difference between the two class of cases. If the hon Member said relief was given to men out of work-of course it was; what MR. W. E. FORSTER said, there was would the House, or what would any this difference between the former and pre- humane person, think if it was not? sent state of things adverted to by the Several years ago, when the New Poor hon. Member for Devonport, that while Law was passed, the hon. Member was many years ago there was a strong feeling foremost in the agitation against it, and amongst the poor that their interests he could not look with much pleasure would be injured by the change proposed on all the language he used at that time in the operation of the law, they now be--but he was then against the in-door test, lieved, on the contrary, that they would be benefited. The hon. Member, who directed his arguments chiefly to the effect of the Bill on the manufacturing districts, asserted, first, that a certain agricultural district in the neighbourhood of which they both resided would be more heavily taxed under the proposed Bill, and, secondly, that the increase would be the more unfair, because, he said, it was the practice to give relief in aid of wages. At the second reading the hon. Member told him that he (Mr. W. E. Forster) had an agricultural constituency. He presumed that the hon. Member had since found out that such was not the case. The union of Bradford was the borough of Bradford and consisted of a manufacturing population. The hon. Member stated that of the six townships Mr. Ferrand although now he seemed to think it ought to be applied. But that part of the Poor Law never was carried out in the manufacturing districts in Yorkshire. In the main the hon. Gentleman was right, for if at periods of depression of trade an attempt had been made to adopt the system of giving in-door relief in all cases of pauperism, the Board of Guardians would have been unable to meet such a change. The Boards of Guardians had ever since gone upon an opposite system of not forcing paupers to go into the workhouse if they could help it. When he (Mr. W. E. Forster) laid the first stone of the present workhouse at Bradford he stated that the building was intended for two purposes; first, as a refuge for the sick and aged who had no other home to go to; and secondly, |