ceding Monday, that it was impossible for him then to go into any sort of investigation of them; and having been moved in so extraordinary a manner, it was not to be wondered at that he and other gentlemen had not come down the next day to examine the estimates; or, that the report of the committee had passed without a single observation. It might, he was aware, be said, that any reference to the ordnance estimates was, for the reasons he had stated, out of time; but, as he meant not to press his motions upon the house if they should be at all objected to; and wished to have them agreed to-rather for the purpose of laying the ground for future discussion, than with any relation to present debate he hoped it would be allowed that it was right to make them prior to the recess. One great object of future discussion was, a matter that had been mentioned in the debate on Monday last, when the army and ordnance estimates had been voted; and this was the total of the estimate of the expense of the system of fortification in the West Indies about to be adopted. It was undoubtedly material for that house to know what the estimate of the whole expense was, previous to the system's having full parliamentary sanction; because, the case might happen that works to a very large extent might be raised; and it might afterwards be said to that house, "The three thousand men that you voted last year was not the full augmentation necessary for the West Indies ;-our works, already erected, require so many more to man them;-and you must either vote the full necessary complement, or you weaken the islands, and strengthen the enemy, by putting them in easy possession of works which we cannot defend and maintain." In that view of the consequence, therefore, it was impossible to say to what extent, or to what expense, the works might be carried; or how it might affect the resources of the country, both in regard to men and money. Mr. Sheridan said, he held in his hand a paper which he deemed a valuable document; it was a report of the board of ordnance, as to the intended plan of fortifications to be erected, and other projects conceived necessary to be adopted; dated 1783, and signed Richmond. In that paper, the noble duke had stated the suspicions that the conduct of the board of ordnance had long been liable to; and with a view to put an end to them, had, in an open and manly way, avowed his designs with regard to future works and future plans, and submitted them to the con

sideration of parliament. That paper Mr. Sheridan thought highly deserving the notice of the house; as it contained the noble duke's own account of his intentions, and was, therefore, a proper subject of reference, whenever an ordnance estimate was laid upon the table, during the time the noble duke should continue to hold his office of master-general of the ordnance. In that report, the house would see that his grace suggested that system of fortification, both at home and abroad, which had, in the first instance, been agitated and discussed in that house; and, so much to the honour of the speaker, been decided against by the effect of his vote. The present proposal of fortifying the West Indies was a part of the plan already exploded and rejected in that house; and not, as the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Pitt) had declared, a new idea arising out of new circumstances. In order, therefore, to rouse the house to a due attention of the importance of the consideration, Mr. Sheridan said, he should move for an estimate of the whole expense of the intended plan of fortifying the West India islands.

Another matter, also, which he should make a motion upon, was a charge in the estimate of £10,000 for the purchase of some powder mills at Waltham Abbey; a project, in every point of view, absurd and impolitic, as it tended to annihilate the manufacture of gunpowder in this country, and to substitute in its stead an unfair monopoly, vested in the hands of government only. The mischiefs of such a scheme were obvious and ascertainable from the experience of the royal powder mills at Feversham; where the expense of the establishment had been so great, that every pound of powder cost government four times as much as they could purchase it for from other manufacturers.

A farther subject of motion was a proposition that had already challenged and excited the attention of that house:—the raising a corps of artificers, consisting of six hundred men, and dividing them into six companies. A more unprincipled plan he had never seen suggested; and, when he used the term unprincipled, he said he did not mean to apply it in the bad sense of the word, but as marking a plan, not founded on any sound or rational principle; for such he took the plan in question to be. In order to prove this assertion, Mr. Sheridan read a sentence from the Duke of Richmond's report of 1783; in which his

grace had stated that, from suffering some of the artificers at Woolwich, Sheerness, &c. to be put into companies, the artillery would never want artificers; and a saving of £15,000 would be made to government. Before, therefore, any new plan of raising a new corps of artificers was adopted, Mr. Sheridan declared it was necessary to know what the saving made, in consequence of the noble duke's plan of 1783, amounted to; because if no such saving, as was stated in the report in his hand, had been made, the present proposition of raising a corps of artificers—instead of being economical-would, in fact, be an additional expense upon the public. Mr. Sheridan next descanted on the idle use of the word economy, and contended, that under that cover and pretence, the noble duke had considerably increased the patronage and influence of the board of ordnance; both of which, when first chosen master-general, he professed it to be his main object to curtail and diminish. He ridiculed the idea of putting artificers under martial law, and subjecting them to military discipline; declaring it was absurd in the extreme to suppose that men capable of earning half-a-crown, or three shillings a day, would enlist as soldiers, and work in their respective occupations for a third of the money, or less; for, who could expect that carpenters should give up their freedom and their better wages for the mere douceur of military discipline? The result, if the wild project were adopted, would only be, that we should have soldiers without discipline, and workmen without skill.

Mr. Sheridan next called the attention of the house to the charge for the works at Cumberland Fort; and declared he almost repented the vote he had given against the noble duke's general system of fortification of the dock-yards, debated and discussed three or four years ago; because from what he had since seen, he had every reason to think the noble duke believed, in his conscience, the system ought to be adopted; and he (Mr. Sheridan) in his conscience believed it would ultimately be adopted; and he declared, he had much rather the house should openly and knowingly adopt a bad precedent, than have a bad precedent foisted upon them indirectly, and against their con

sent.

Mr. Sheridan observed, upon the various subjects he had mentioned, frequently adverting to the Duke of Richmond's Report of 1783; and having read the motion he meant to make on each, he concluded with moving for

"An estimate of the expense of completing the fortifications intended in the West Indies; distinguishing the sums proposed to be allotted for the defence of each island, with an account of the number of troops necessary to garrison the whole."

Mr. Chancellor Pitt answered, that the honourable gentleman had unfortunately moved, in the first instance, what he must necessarily object to; whereas, to most of the other motions that he had opened, he did not see the smallest ground of objection. With regard to the estimates of the whole amount of the fortifications intended for the West India Islands, he had stated to the house, in a late debate, that an estimate of the total expense could not, from the nature of things, be made up at present; but that, from what he knew of the subject, he conjectured that it would amount to a sum as large as £180,000 and not exceeding £200,000. He could give no other answer then, and as he knew that a complete estimate could not be made out, he must necessarily resist a motion which could not possibly be complied with.

Mr. Sheridan, with the consent of the house, withdrew the motion. He then severally moved for

"An account of the application of the money voted for the ordnance the last four years."

"An account of the savings by employing part of the royal regiment of artillery as artificers."

"A copy of the king's warrant for raising the corps of artificers."

"A copy of the agreement for Waltham Abbey powder

mills."

"An account of the establishment of the royal powder mills at Feversham."

"An account of the different articles supplied for ordnance." "An account of the civil establishment."

"An estimate of Cumberland Fort." And, "An account of the convicts employed."

These motions were all carried.

FEBRUARY 11, 1788.

PROCEEDINGS AGAINST ELIJAH IMPEY.

The order of the day, for the house to resolve itself into a committee to hear witnesses on charges exhibited against Sir Elijah Impey, having been read, Sir Gilbert Elliot moved "That Mr. Farrer, a member of the house, be examined in his place." Mr. Farrer said, he felt no objection to be examined, provided it was at the desire of both parties and of the committee, but that he would, on no account, consent to be considered as the witness either of the accusers or of the accused. It was then proposed to call Sir Elijah to the bar, and ask, whether he had any objection to having Mr. Farrer examined; but

MR. SHERIDAN observed, that if such a measure was adopted, it would put the house into a most embarrassing situation, as it would be difficult for them to proceed, in case Sir Elijah Impey should refuse to consent. Mr. Sheridan added, that the honourable gentleman had already informed the committee that he had it in his power to throw more light upon the subject of the first charge, than any man living; and if it was declared to be the sense of that committee, he had no objection; he would therefore move to declare that it was the sense of that committee that Mr. Farrer be examined.

The motion was carried.—Mr. Farrer then proceeded to give his evidence, and began a regular detail of all the circumstances of Nundcomar's case, tracing them from the first time of their agitation, before Sir Elijah Impey's arrival in India, down to the arraignment of Nundcomar, on an indictment for perjury in the supreme court of judicature. In the early part of the narration, Mr. Farrer stated that he had in his hand a warrant, on the back of which was written, by an attorney, an account of the conversation of the judges, upon application to them to grant a writ of habeas corpus to Nundcomar. Mr. Farrer said, the gentleman who wrote the account was gone to India, but that he knew it to be his handwriting. Having said this, he read the account, and it was taken down by the clerk at the table. Mr. John Scott then rose, and seriously declared his conviction that this former objection was right, and that the witness ought not to have been suffered to give his testimony in any other way but in answer to such questions as might have been put to him. Mr. Scott declared the paper just read would not have been received in any court in the kingdom, since it was not evidence, but a mere hearsay account of a conversation. Mr. Scott enlarged upon the established law of evidence, and upon the necessity of strictly adhering to it in all proceedings in any sort leading to a judicial determination. This gave rise to various remarks concerning the nature of the proceeding upon which the committee were then engaged. Mr. Fox maintained that the paper just read was a proper paper to be upon the table, considering the nature of the present proceeding; and declared it was not a proceeding at all analogous to any legal measures in the courts of Westminster Hull; nor was the house at all bound by the rules of legal evidence. He also observed, that he felt it impossible to speak of lawyers in the highest terms of praise, when he saw them coming down in a body, to puzzle and confound the members of that house, by advancing rules of law practice, in cases where they did not apply; and he reminded the committee that the house had, on various occasions, exerted its authority, and even gone so far as to punish the judges by impeaching them for misconstruction of the laws of the land. Mr. Bearcroft observed, that he could not avoid expressing his astonishment at the illiberal obloquy with which the right honourable gentleman opposite to him had treated a whole profession. He added, that if he was to lay his finger upon the particular point that had raised the practice of law in this country so high in the estimation of all the world, it would be upon the law of evidence. He took notice of Mr. Fox having said he was bred