theless, not have troubled the House if he did not feel it to be a duty which he owed as well to his own character as to the Church of Ireland. The subject, he could assure the House, was one of very great importance. It involved no less than the giving of incumbents to eleven different parishes; of providing the Protestant residents of these parishes with clergymen to discharge the sacred duties of the ministry. Any Gentleman who sat in the last Parliament must be aware that the general union of parishes in Ireland was a constant subject of regret and of complaint; of regret to those who had at heart the wellbeing of the Church of Ireland; and of complaint from those who gladly seized upon every topic which was likely to damage the character of that Church in the eyes of the Parliament or of the people. For some years past those who took an interest in the well-being of the Church, were anxious to bring in some effectual measure for the reduction of the number of unions in Ireland; and for his own part when he had the honour of holding office under the present viceroy of that country, he felt it his duty to introduce measures for the dissolution of particular Unions, and he would take that opportunity of stating, that no man could be more anxiously disposed for the accomplishment of such measures than was Lord Wellesley. However, it so happened that when the Duke of Wellington was First Lord of the Treasury, it was deemed proper by Government, in order that no further delay might take place, to institute a general inquiry into the whole subject, rather than proceed with the correction of isolated cases. A Commission was accordingly appointed, composed of prelates, legal officers, and laymen. The Commission was appointed some time in 1830, and having applied themselves diligently to the subject which they were appointed to investigate, they made their Report in the early part of 1831, and in July it was submitted to Parliament. In the Report of that Commission the evils of Unions of parishes were fully recognised, and a mode of remedying those evils was also suggested. One of the principal Unions adverted to, was the deanery of Down, which was composed of six other parishes. The value of this Union was 3,000l. a-year, and this amount was made up by the abstraction of the tithes of five other parishes. The recommendation in the Report of the VOL. XXII. {T} Third Commissioners was to give up to the several incumbents of each parish the amount of its revenue, leaving, by this arrangement, the deanery worth 1,000l. a-year. That Report had attached to it the signatures of the Lord Chancellor, the Primate, two Bishops, Dr. Radcliffe, and the Master of the Rolls. When he (Mr. Goulburn) reflected upon the state of the clergymen in the Union, the curates who discharged the several duties receiving no more than about 70l. a-year, he did, he confessed, indulge the confident hope that the recommendation of the Commissioners would be attended to. In this hope he was strengthened when he found that the son of one of the Commissioners was appointed to the vacant deanery; for he could not suppose, that the appointment would have been either made or accepted, unless upon the express condition that the recommendation of the Commissioners was to be carried into effect. And, indeed, that conviction remained firm upon his mind until the year 1832, when he heard that no such agreement had been even implied upon the appointment of the new dean. Upon having been accidentally informed of this, he put a question to the right hon. Gentleman on the other side, who replied that he had not been able to devote sufficient attention to the matter to give him the information he desired; but he, at the same time, assured him, that effect should be given to the recommendation of the Commissioners. There, then, the matter rested at that time. At the opening of the ensuing Session he found himself again obliged to put a question to the Government on the subject, and he was informed that in the Temporalities Bill an express provision would be introduced to give effect to the recommendation of the Commissioners. He, however, could not. help expressing his disappointment at not finding in the Bill any such provision. However, in a subsequent Bill, which passed in July of last year, the provision was certainly introduced. He should have expected that a recommendation now before the House for three years, would have been at once adopted; however, nine months had been allowed to elapse, and nothing had been as yet done. He, therefore, felt it to be his duty to call upon the House to agree to an Address, humbly praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to give effect to the recommendation of the Commissioners. He D wished to avoid any topics that could by possibility involve personal considerations, and he should, therefore, not more particularly allude to this appointment to the deanery of Down. With respect to the deanery of Raphoe, not much inconvenience had as yet arisen; but to avoid that, the recommendation of the Commissioners ought at once to be adopted. There were in the deanery of Down five curates; there was also a very considerable town, with a rapidly increasing population, and every hour which the subject was delayed was a great injury to the Protestant parishioners-in fact, he should say to the whole Church Establishment, and to all the Protestants of the empire. The arrangement ought to be carried into effect immediately. If it were even possible that the appointment was made without a stipulation that the recommendation of the Commissioners should be carried into effect, surely if the Government had a communication with the dean, no opposition would be offered upon his part. At all events, he felt it due to the Church of Ireland to move that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, humbly praying his Majesty to give effect to the recommendatiou of the Commissioners of Ecclesiastical Inquiry, respecting the deaneries of Down and Raphoe, expressed in the Report of 13th July, 1831. and it was given to the present incumbent upon the distinct understanding that he was not to consider himself as having any vested right or interest in it in case any alteration should be proposed in Parlia ment. I think the right hon. Gentleman should have added, in justice to the dean of Down, that upon being informed of the recommendation of the Commissioners, which had been overlooked at the time of his appointment, he distinctly stated his determination not to stand in the way of any alteration that Parliament might think fit to make with respect to the deanery. The right hon. Gentleman has also admitted one fact which ought not to be lost sight of, namely, that at the time that both these deaneries fell vacant there was no legal mode of effecting the object which the Commissioners and the right hon. Gentleman had in view, because the presentation to the several perpetual curacies was in the chapter of the deaneries of Down and Raphoe, and that, therefore, the dissolution could not be effected without some previous arrangement upon that point. In the Church Temporalities Bill of last year, a clause was introduced to remedy that ecclesiastical difficulty, and in future to provide for the appointment to those livings; and when the right hon. Gentleman complains that under that Bill no step has as yet been taken to dissolve Mr. Secretary Stanley: The right hon. the Unions, of which he very justly comGentleman, in the course of the Address plains, he should remember that that Bill that he has made to the House, has has very materially altered the value of a so pointedly alluded to to me, that great many livings, and I am also informed trust my right hon. friend, the Secre- has very considerably altered the views of tary for Ireland, will excuse me if I the Ecclesiastical Commissioners themrise before him to state, in a few words, selves. But I would not have the House the reasons upon which I feel myself com- suppose, that there is no measure in conpelled—though I agree in a great measure templation upon the subject--on the conwith the right hon. Gentleman in the trary, I beg to assure the House that the observations that he has made to object steps necessary for carrying into effect the to the Address which he now moves. separation of the Unions in the case of the I do not at all impugn the correctness of two deaneries of Down and Raphoe, are the statement which the right hon. Gen- now, and have for some time been, under tleman has made with respect to the the consideration of the Privy Council of Commissioners of Ecclesiastical Inquiry, Ireland, whose consent to the proposed whose recommendation I, for one, am very change will be necessary before it can be far from undervaluing I do not deny carried into effect. But the Ecclesiastical that the Commissioners, having prosecuted Commissioners have stated, that the Church their inquiries in that part of the country, Temporalities Bill of last year has made recommended the extinction of the dean- so great a difference in the incomes of eries of Down and Raphoe; but I was some of the Unions, as to render it absonot aware of that fact at the time that the lutely necessary for them, previous to any preferment was given to the present dean of these recommendations being acted of Down. The deanery of Raphoe, how-upon, to reconsider each individual case, ever, fell vacant at a subsequent period, and to Report to what an extent the Mr. Ruthven was not surprised at the ignorance shown by the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Stanley) knowing, as he did, the polluted sources from which that right hon. Gentleman derived his information. Every one who knows any thing about the county Down, knows very well the deanery is worth above 3,000l. ayear; the appointment was one of the grossest jobs ever managed by any man; and the whole circumstances were well worthy of an Irish patriot. In order to show that the system was still continued, he would mention to the House, that, the other day, one of the Commissioners appointed to value the deanery, in order to place it under the Composition Act, was the under-agent to the dean, appointed by the Irish Government, and, no doubt, at the instance of the Chancellor himself, whose patriotic feeling told him, the man who collected the tithes for his son was the most likely person to value them properly. amount of the income has been changed. | Commissioners have in view. After this I saw a statement the other day, whether declaration I hope the right hon. Gentlecorrect or incorrect I will not pretend to man will consent to withdraw his Motion say, because I have not the means of for the present, with the full assurance judging, but by which it appears that that the views of the Commissioners will whereby the dean of Down surrendered a not be lost sight of by the Government. living of upwards of 1,000l. a-year for the deanery of Down, which is worth 2,8001. a-year; if the recommendations of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners were to be strictly carried into effect without further inquiry, the value of the deanery would not exceed 350l. a-year. I am sure the House would not wish to deal so hardly and unjustly by any person. The right hon. Gentleman could not, I am sure, be aware that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners themselves have been the parties who, under the altered circumstances in which the Church Temporalities Bill of last year has placed a great portion of the livings in Ireland, have denied that we should not proceed according to those persons' recommendation, and that the opinion of the Privy Council of Ireland should first be taken. The question at present is before the Privy Council, and I assure the right hon. Gentleman that it is as much the wish of the Government of Ireland, as it is my own wish, and as it can be the wish of the right hon. Gentleman himself, that those deaneries should be so divided as to leave an adequate compensation for the persons who are in possession of the different benefices. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, as to the importance of follow-hanging over their heads, were anxious for ing up the views of the Commissioners, as far as they can be followed up, under the altered circumstances of the Church in Ireland, and I am prepared to go one step further, and to state that, if at the end of this Session of Parliament no measure should be put into operation for the purpose of dividing those deaneries, I shall, with great pleasure, join with the right hon. Gentleman in addressing the Crown upon the subject. But, at the present moment, as the matter is under the consideration of the Privy Council, and as the very persons who formerly proposed the immediate dissolution of the Unions of parishes, now recommend delay, I think it is only fair that it should now be left to the Privy Council to effect, with as much despatch as is consistent with a due consideration of the changes that have been made, those objects which the right hon. Gentleman and the Ecclesiastical Colonel Conolly knew it was desired by all parties that an arrangement should be made, and he himself could not understand why it had not been carried into effect sooner. The very incumbents of those deaneries, knowing that the law was a settlement, and so, he repeated, were all parties. The present state of things conduced very much to their own inconvenience, and to the discredit of the Church. He differed from the right hon. Secretary as to the patronage of the livings attached to the deanery of Raphoe. The incumbent of one of those parishes is of a very advanced age, and the routine of appointing to the benefice, in all probability, will very soon take place. The right hon. Secretary stated, that the right of presentation rested with the chapter. He believed it rested with the dean. This, then, was a point upon which very considerable inconvenience might arise, unless some arrangement were speedily made Therefore, as far as his humble voice could prevail with the Government, he would urge them to the immediate fulfilment of the recommendation of the Irish Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and to allow the incum bents of the several parishes to come into possession of the tithe with as little delay as possible. Mr. Littleton said, as most of the circumstances to which this Motion related took place prior to his coming into office, he was requested by his right hon. friend, the Secretary for the Colonies, to give way to him, and to allow him to reply to the observations that were made by the right hon. Gentleman opposite in submitting his Motion. In point of fact, he had nothing whatever to offer in explanation of what had passed, except with respect to that which had occurred since the passing of the Church Temporalities' Bill. As soon as the Commission was appointed under that Bill, they entered upon the parishes connected with the deanery of Down, to make a return of their incomes. Some obstacles had stood in the way of obtaining these returns; but they were now made, and were last week brought before the Lord-lieutenant and the Privy Council of Ireland. With respect to Raphoe, the right hon. Gentleman had himself admitted, that there were circumstances which admitted of delay. In that case all the parties had been called upon to make a return of their incomes, and the whole of these returns had been made, except in one instance; and when that was made, the whole would be brought under the consideration of the Council. Under these circumstances he must join with his right hon. colleague, in hoping that the right hon. Gentleman would not press his Motion. Sir Robert Peel: If I know anything of the right hon. Secretary for the Colonies-if I have formed a correct estimate of his character, and of the motives and feelings by which his public conduct is influenced-I have no hesitation in saying, that had he been aware of the recommendation of the Commissioners respecting the deanery of Down, he would sooner have cut off his right hand than have signed the appointment of the son of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland to that deanery. I believe it to be impossible, that Gentlemen filling high official situations should not occasionally be betrayed into inadvertencies in the filling up of appointments; and the more assiduously they attend to public business, the more likely are they to act inadvertently upon particular occasions in the disposal of their patronage. If Gentlemen were to be arraigned for this as a crime, there would be an end of all safety for men in office. Well, then, this appointment to the deanery of Down has been made-that act is irrevocablebut the appointment ought to be revoked, in order to give due authority to the Crown, and confidence to the Commission you have appointed for the purpose of effecting many great objects connected with the Established Church in Ireland. I will enumerate certain facts which will convince the House, that this appointment ought to be revoked. I have most implicit confidence in what the right hon. Secretary for Ireland has stated. I hope my right hon. friend will not press his Motion to a division. If he do, however, I shall certainly feel myself called upon to vote with him. But when I have stated a few facts, I am sure the right hon. Secretary will feel, that in order to support the confidence of the Commissioners, and indeed of the country, some other step should be taken which would render it imperative upon the Lordlieutenant of Ireland to dissolve these unions without loss of time. There has long been a general expression of feeling on both sides of the House, that one of the great evils of Ireland is the existence of these unions, devolving upon one individual the duties, or rather the emoluments, of very large districts. Every one, I believe, has felt the necessity of dissolving these unions, and a Commission was in consequence appointed to consider in what way they could best be dissolved. The Lord Chancellor of Ireland was one of those Commissioners who made this report. Acting on these principles, and always supposing that no dissolution of the unions would be effected so as to interfere with the vested rights of existing incumbents, but supposing, generally, if not universally, that the dissolution, if desirable, would be carried into effect at the earliest possible period, consistently with the observance of those rights, the Commissioners have, in the annexed schedules, recorded their opinion, that out of the 110 unions stated to exist, the dissolution of sixty-one is most practicable and fit. The Commissioners, at the same time, most properly protecting the interest of the present incumbents, state, "the Bishop of the diocese is of opinion, that considering the circumstances of the parishes of Down, a dissolution would be practicable, in which the Commissioners concur." Secondly," the Bishop thinks, that convenience would be likely to result from " the dissolution, by placing the Ministers | Report, which I had not at that time seen. of the several parishes generally in a situ- The appointment took place, the living ation of greater respectability, without di- vacated being worth 1,2001. a-year. If minishing the incomes and dignities of the recommendation of the Commissioners the see. They afterwards state, that the were at this moment carried into effect, I period at which it is proposed to effect am given to understand that the effect the alteration, is the next avoidance of would be to reduce the nett income of the the deanery, that being the earliest period dean to between 3801. and 4007. [Mr. at which the dissolution would be practic- Ruthven: No, no.] The hon. Gentleman able. The existing interest expires, a denies this statement; if the hon. Genvacancy takes place, the deanery of a tleman will call on me in private to-morrow certain union of parishes becomes vacant, morning, I shall be happy to show him and the man placed in that union is the my authority for making it, and he shall son of one of the Commissioners. Why, have full liberty of investigating it to the there can be but one opinion on this point, fullest extent. The question now before when, after such a direct and explicit re- the Privy Council, who are at this moment commendation, an immediate relative of considering in what manner they can carry one of the Commissioners is, on the first into effect the recommendation of the avoidance of the living, on the very first Commissioners, always bearing in mind vacancy that occurs, to be the individual that a part of their intention was, that an selected to fill the appointment. The ap- income of not less than from 1,000l. to pointment, however, has taken place; it 1,2001. a-year should be secured to the would be very unjust, I dare say, with re- dean on his having the deanery in the ference to the respectable individual who parish of Down. This intention, I have fills this office, to recall that appointment, not the least doubt, will be faithfully caras he has vacated other appointments of ried into effect. It is only fair to say, the equal value; but this I do say, for the appointment having been made very shortly sake of supporting the authority of the after the making of the Report, and before Crown, by the authority of the Commis- it was perused by me, the dean of Down sioners, let the Crown give this individual finding that he had been appointed in opthe first preferment of an equivalent value position to the recommendation of the that may become vacant; let them not Commissioners, expressed his readiness to injure existing interests, but do let them abide by that recommendation, even take the first opportunity of carrying into though by so doing, he incurred a certain effect a recommendation, the second name loss of income. This would be the result appended to which is the name of Lord of the recommendation being strictly carPlunket. ried into effect, which, I am sure, neither Mr. Secretary Stanley: I rise for the the House nor the right hon. Baronet purpose of very briefly explaining the would be disposed to advocate. So far, statement which I have already made to however, as the spirit of the report goes, the House, because, in the first place, II can assure the hon. House that it is the cannot conceive that the right hon. Baronet would recommend the displacing of this individual, the appointment having taken place; and, in the next place, I think the right hon. Baronet has argued Mr. Hume said, it appeared to him that this question as if I had contended, which the question was treated by the right hon. I did not, that it was not intended, and Gentleman as if it were merely a money that forthwith, to carry into effect-so far question. Now, he perfectly well reas it could be carried into effect-the re-membered, that when an hon. Baronet, commendation of the Commissioners. I have not got the Report before me; but if the right hon. Baronet will turn to it, he will see, that the recommendation of the Commissioners was for such a dissolution of the union of Down as would give the dean a nett income of 3,100l. This appointment took place within, I believe, a very few weeks after the making of the full determination of the Irish Government to carry into effect, not only this, but all the other recommendations of the Commissioners. not now a Member of this House, introduced his Motion for the appointment of those Commissioners, the great advantage which was dwelt upon as likely to result from their inquiries was this-that the individuals frequenting the different Churches in the union, would be very much convenienced by having a separate clergyman appointed to each. |