66 Mr. Robert Grant begged to reply to that part of the learned Gentleman's speech, in which he declared there was no precedent of a minority yielding to a majority: he would ask him, on the other side, to produce an instance of a minority persevering against a majority for a trifle, the attaining of which could not benefit the question at issue. There might be cases of its being done, when, under particular circumstances, the opponents of any measure might stop it for one stage. for adjournment had originated in mistake, J nuine sincerity of men who conscientiously when the fact was, the hon. member for believed themselves to be engaged in a Dundalk could not obtain a hearing, and great cause. For this reason," said Sir was therefore, in his own defence compelled Charles, "I have made up my mind to to make the motion. He would break a spear perseverance-and persevere I will." with any man who said, that he was acting wrongly on this occasion, for it was necessary to be firm, and persevere in addressing the House when there was a chance of being attended to, and the intention of preventing discussion was so very glaring. It was in consequence of this that the first motion was made, and the subsequent motions for adjournment originated from the lateness of the hour. Never were amendments brought forward on more constitutional grounds. The worthy Alderman had'stated, that the wise men of the East believed that a few Members proposed, by a factious opposition, to defeat the Reform Bill. These might be very clever people in the Stock Market, Corn Market, or the Royal Exchange, but they knew nothing at all of the matter now before the House, and he would advise the worthy Alderman not to retail his soporific stories there, but confine himself to things more germane to his own understanding, and when he next charged hon. Members with being factious, to state his prediction before the event, if he wished to be taken for a prophet. Now, in answer to his learned friend he would say, there was a sort of parliamentary understanding that a majority should give way, and he never remembered a case analogous to the present, in which the Government, on its being pressed, had not consented to an adjournment. There had been, undoubtedly, a great waste of time, but Ministers had themselves to thank for it. As an allusion had been made to what the public would think of the proceedings of that night, he declared that he had no doubt of the public giving the warmest approbation to the proceedings of Members on that side of the House. He should continue to pursue the path which he had hitherto followed, being convinced, that in that House he should be deemed to have acted the part of an independent Member of Parliament, though he was only the Member of a rotten borough [coughing.] He would not be coughed down, as others had been. Though they had been nightly performing their duty in that House, the public believed that he and his friends had been colluding with the Government, and not conducting their cause with the ge Mr. Sheil said, that as the hon. Gentleman the member for Dundalk, the first cause of the debate, had receded, he thought the hon. and learned member for Boroughbridge ought to have followed his example, instead of which he still continued to persevere, and though he was abandoned and deserted by all his supporters, he stood his ground with a strange and perverse obstinacy. One Member said, that they were contending about trifles, and another about straws; but it ought not to be forgotten, that straws might be lighted, and set fire to the public mind. The course taken was most unwise. The Gentlemen opposite were reduced miserably in numbers and influence; on this side, there was an immense majority, and was the public business, he would ask, to be arrested under such circumstances? When this debate went forth to-morrow, the whole metropolis would be in a ferment. What estimate would be formed of a party which had recourse to such measures, to defeat the desires of the whole nation? The hon. member for Boroughbridge spoke slightingly of public opinion; was that in accordance with his boast that he represented the whole mass of the community; that although delegated for a rotten borough, he was yet a trustee and image of the national will? Let him beware of proclaiming his disregard for public opinion. It had too much power to be scorned, and however it might be eluded, it must not be despised. Sir J. Brydges proposed that they should draw lots to decide whether they should or should not adjourn the Debate. If the House would not accede to that proposition, he should support the amendment. The Attorney General.-Are we then to understand that the hon. Baronet supports the amendment, because the House refuses to decide this question by a toss-up? The House divided on the motion to Adjourn.-Ayes 24; Noes 187-Majority 163. Sir C. Wetherell asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he had any proposition to make about the resumption of this Debate at five o'clock that day? He and his friends had been engaged in these discussions so long for no other purpose than to secure the independence of this House, and to prevent the freedom of debate from being stifled. He did not wish to impede, but to facilitate, the settlement of this great question. disturbed by disputes about tithes, and he begged in the first instance to move that the Petition be read at length. [The Petition was accordingly read by the Clerk. It complained, that there existed in that part of Ireland a systematic opposition to the payment of tithes, and that it was impossible for the incumbents to collect them without having recourse to the aid of the constabulary or military power.] The right rev. Prelate then observed that previous to moving, that the petition should lie upon the Table, he wished to address a few words to their Lordships upon the subject to which the petition referred. He was the more anxious to do so, because the petitioners complained of the evils to which they drew the attention of their Lordships upon no slight grounds, and because calumnies had of late been heaped in profusion upon the clergy of the Irish Established Church, by all those who hated the religion which they taught, or who envied the advantages which they enjoyed, or who were desirous to effect the destruction of the Constitution, of which that Church formed an essential part. He was anxious, under such circumstances, to state a few facts in reply to the calumnious attacks which had been made upon that Establishment, particularly in the recent publication of a Roman Catholic Bishop. In his Letter pointing out the necessity of establishing some provision for the poor of that country, the most unfounded attacks had been made upon the Irish clergy. He would not dwell upon the extraordinary daring which was manifested The Speaker. I think the "Ayes" in addressing to a member of his Majeshave it. ty's Government a letter in which a disobeThe House resolved itself into a Com-dience to the law was recommended, mittee pro forma, and immediately resumed. Lord Althorp was anxious that the House should have the fullest opportunity to discuss the question this evening. If the House would allow him to go into Committee pro forma, the Chairman might report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow, and the discussion might take place as before. Mr. Littleton said, that on the condition that all those who had before spoken should have a right to speak again, he would agree to the proposal. Lord Tullamore also assented, as he wished to do every thing to accommodate the progress of public business. This arrangement was agreed to. The Speaker then put the question, that "I do now leave the Chair." [The cries of " Aye" were deafening: a few "Noes" were heard. Adjourned at half-past seven o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, MINUTES.] Bill read a second time. Dean Forest Bound- Petitions presented. By the Earl of DARNLEY, from the High Sheriff, Nobility, Gentry, Freeholders, and Inhabitants of the County of Meath, in favour of the Re form Bill. By the Marquis of LANSDOWN, from the Protestant Freemen and Inhabitants of Nun's Island, Galway, to extend the Elective Franchise to Roman Catholics. TITHES IN IRELAND.] The Bishop of Ferns rose to present a Petition from certain beneficed Clergymen of a district in Ireland, which had lately been and which contained an exhortation to the people not to pay tithes, expressing a hope that they never would cease to resist the payment, whatever laws, whether civil or ecclesiastical might be had recourse to, to enforce it. He would not dwell on the audacity of a member of that Church, which had recently received from the State a considerable benefit exhorting the people of Ireland to resist the payment of the legal provision for the Irish clergy. His only business was with the calumnious assertions made by this author in regard to the clergymen of the Established Church. The first calumny which this publication contained on the clergy of Ireland was, that they were generally non-resident. Now, would it be believed by their Lord ships, that in the county of Carlow, under | from which this petition proceeded, in conthe immediate eye of Bishop Doyle, the sequence of the opposition offered to author of this publication, there was only the payment of tithes. These disturbone incumbent, who had duty to perform, non-resident, and the cause of his nonresidence arose from the circumstance of his neither having a glebe nor any ground to build upon. That incumbent had further endeavoured to get a house within the distance from the parish church regulated by law, but he was unable to obtain one. There were twenty-two beneficed clergymen in that county, and there was only amongst that number one non-resident who had any duty to perform. There were two other parishes where there were no churches, and therefore where the incumbent, if resident, would not have any duty to discharge. On the whole there were thirty-one clergymen in the diocese: of these, twenty-two were incumbents, and only three were non-resident, one having no place to reside at, and the two others no duty to perform. These facts were as well known to Dr. Doyle, who lived in the neighbourhood of Carlow, and was the titular Bishop of Leighlin, as they were to him. Dr. Doyle having thus endeavoured to excite a prejudice against them as nonresident, next proceeded, in the publication he had mentioned, to excite the people to make an attack on Church property, by representing, that the provision which had been allotted for the maintenance of the Irish Established Church was immense and extravagant. It was unnecessary for him then to go into a refutation of that statement. The evidence of Baron Foster, which was on their Lordships' Table, an individual who was intimately acquainted with the details of the subject, and who was not inclined to represent that property as less than it really was-would at once show that the statement of Bishop Doyle was quite unfounded. Bishop Doyle represented the parishes in Ireland as being worth from 5,000l. to 4,000l., 3,000l., and 2,000l. each, in many instances. There was not, however, he believed one parish in Ireland which altogether afforded to the incumbent 3,000l. a year, and he knew that the average amount yielded by parishes was greatly below that. In the county of Carlow, which was a highly cultivated county, the average amount derived by an incumbent from a parish was 3501. a year, as was apparent from the returns under the Tithe Composition Act. There had been disturbances in the district ances had taken place in the parish held by the Rev. Mr. Allcock, who had been incumbent there for twenty years, who had constantly resided in his parish during that time, and who had exerted himself absolutely to court the favour of his Catholic parishioners. When he became the incumbent of the parish in question, he had resigned 2007. a year out of the total amount which the proceeds of the parish had averaged; and the fact was, that this avaricious rector, as he had been styled, received from his parishioners not more than about 7d. per acre. Was that too much for him? After he had presented this petition, he should certainly move for a return of the parishes in Ireland which had compounded for their tithes, specifying the number of acres in each parish. When that return was upon their Lordships' Table, they would be able to refer to it when any misstatement was made with respect to the amount of the revenues received by the established clergy in Ireland. He wished he could point out an efficient remedy for the evils of which the petitioners complained. It was easy to describe the multiplied and vexatious obstructions thrown in the way of the collection of tithes, but it was not so easy to remove them. It was even a hazardous thing at present to send a person to view a parish which had not compounded, not to speak of the danger of attempting to collect the tithes there. Not only was that the case, but even in parishes where the Composition Act had been introduced, the recovery of the tithe was prevented, for no man would venture to serve a process there, when the serving of it was menaced with the penalty of death by persons who never menaced in vain. In fact, to serve a process was forbidden by those legislators who enforced their orders by assassination; men who made war on the clergy, but who would not permit the clergy to go to law with them. It appeared to him, that the recovery of the tithe under such circumstances might be made an additional duty on the part of the police. He hoped it would not be said in that House, as was said in the public papers that the tithes were the cause of the disturbances in Ireland. It was not so; in those parishes where a composition had tigation which they must necessarily undergo had been brought to a conclusion, were attended with great inconvenience; and so feeling, he should never have thought of bringing this matter under the consideration of their Lordships at the present been entered into, they might be consider- | fess that he felt considerably embarrassed; ed as rent, and yet, notwithstanding that, because premature discussions on subthey were not paid. In such parishes tithe-jects of this nature, before the legal invesproctors had disappeared, and with them, all the objections that had been made to the payment of tithes. The tithe, then, might in such instances be considered as rent, and if the opposition to the payment of the tithe-rent in those places should be successful, it did not require much sagaci-juncture, if the same line of conduct had ty to foresee that opposition would be made in the next instance to the payment of the rent itself. The right rev. Prelate then moved, that the petition should lie on the Table, which was agreed to. [He was proceeding to move for the return which he had already mentioned, when it being suggested by Viscount Melbourne that it would be more regular to give notice of the motion for to-morrow, he accordingly did so.] been adopted by every one else, and if it But NEWTOWNBARRY AFFRAY.] Lord Farnham said, that in rising to bring forward the Motion of which he had given notice, for the production of certain papers connected with the melancholy trans-refer more particularly, where the grossest action which had lately taken place in a misrepresentation of the facts of the case part of Ireland with which he was intimate- had been promulgated, and where the ly connected, he must first express his phrases "indiscriminate slaughter," "massatisfaction that his right rev. friend had sacre," and other opprobrious terms, had preceded him, and had called the attention been applied towards the acts of indiviof their Lordships to the petition which duals whose conduct had as yet to undergo had been just laid before them. That pe- the ordeal of a judicial investigation. It tition was signed by nineteen or twenty was under such circumstances, that he felt beneficed clergymen of the diocese in it necessary to call on their Lordships to which the affair he was desirous of agree to the motion which he was about to making some observations on had oc- make, for the presentation of an address to curred. The petitioners complained, and his Majesty, praying his Majesty that he justly complained, of the difficulties would be graciously pleased to order the which impeded the collection of their production of certain papers, which would tithes a payment which, he was sure, throw a proper light upon this unfortunate their Lordships would allow was as justly transaction, and which he was sincerely due to them under the existing law, as convinced would establish the correctness their Lordships' rents. No person could be of the view which he had taken of it. So better acquainted than was that right rev. gross had been the misrepresentations Prelate with the difficulties which those which had been sent abroad of this transclergymen had to contend with in securing action, that in many of the provincial their property. By his constant residence towns of England handbills had been ciramongst, and intercourse with, the clergyculated, with descriptive figures in them, of his diocese, he was intimately acquaint-containing the most exaggerated account ed with all their circumstances, and having of the affray at Newtownbarry. He held always paid the utmost attention to their wants and wishes, any statement from him on the subject did not need any confirmation. If it did, he could justly bear out his right rev. friend in the statement made to their Lordships. In bringing forward the present motion, he was willing to con in his hand one which had been distributed in Wolverhampton and Birmingham, which spoke of "the dreadful slaughter at Newtownbarry," and which gave the most libellous and abominable description that it was possible to give of the whole occur rence. Their Lordships would recollect, attributed, and he did think that Dr. Doyle was morally responsible for the very blood which had been shed in the late unfortunate affair in Newtownbarry. Their Lordships would recollect that, in the former Session, he (Lord Farnham) alluded to the conduct of an individual of the same name as Dr. Doyle. He was then informed, that he was mistaken in supposing that that rev. gentleman was a near relative of Dr. Doyle, and that he was only a distant relation of his. That rev. gentleman had resided in the parish of Clonegal, which adjoined that of Newtownbarry, for several years, and he (Lord Farnham) was aware, that he had been in the habit of exciting the people there against tithes. He would openly assert, that one of the chief conspirators in the that early in the last Session of Parliament,, I trace their hatred of tithe. May it be as he had more than once called their Lord- lasting as their love of justice!" To him ships' attention to the subject which his the circulation of such sentiments appeared right rev. friend had pressed upon their calculated to do much mischief-and he consideration that night. He had upon could not avoid expressing the indignation that occasion called their Lordships' atten- which he felt at finding a person filling the tion to many disturbances connected with situation of Dr. Doyle, sitting down in his the collection of tithes, which had taken study and coolly disseminating, through the place in the parish of Graigne, in the means of the Press, such sentiments as county of Kilkenny. He, at that time, these throughout Ireland - sentiments took occasion to state, that he was firmly which were calculated to lead to sedition, convinced, and what had since occurred rebellion, and civil war. He did in his had confirmed him in that opinion, that conscience believe, that to Dr. Doyle and a systematic conspiracy had been formed to his writings, in a great degree, the state in that part of Ireland to oppose the pay-of Ireland, with regard to tithes, was to be ment of tithes, and he mentioned the names of those whom he considered as foremost in organizing that conspiracy. At the head of that conspiracy he had placed that reverend Prelate to whom his right rev. friend had alluded that evening, and who had lately addressed a letter to Mr. Spring Rice, the Secretary to the Treasury, urging the necessity of establishing some provision for the poor of Ireland. He would take the liberty of reading to them a passage from that letter, to which his right rev. friend had referred, and he trusted, that their Lordships, on hearing it, would be of opinion that anything less likely to allay the excitement which existed in Ireland against tithes could not be composed, than the passage in question. Talking of the Irish nation in this letter, Bishop Doyle remarked-conspiracy which existed in Ireland to "The Irish people, since their first conversion to the Christain faith, always understood rightly the Gospel dispensation. They were always too rational, and too acute, to submit willingly to an unreasonable, I might add, an unjust imposition, and the law of tithe, whether civil or ecclesiastical, has never had-either in Catholic or Protestant times, no, not to the present hour-the assent or consent of the Irish nation. They have always been at war with it, and I trust in God they will never cheerfully submit to it." Truly, the Irish people had been at war with it, and this letter was well calculated to encourage them in keeping up that war. The Doctor went on to say-“ There are many noble traits in the Irish character, mixed with failings which have always raised obstacles to their own well-being; but an innate love of justice, and an indomitable hatred of oppression, is like a gem upon the front of our nation, which no darkness can obscure. To this fine quality resist the payment of tithes, was the celebrated person from whose letter he had just read an extract to their Lordships. A singular consideration here arose. He had been told-at least the fact had been stated on newspaper authority-that this rev. Prelate had been made a Magistrate of the county of Carlow. Lord Plunkett: that is not true: he is not a Magistrate. Lord Farnham said, the fact might not. be so-he only spoke from public report. If it were the case, Dr. Doyle might be placed in a very awkward situation if he were called on to adjudicate on a question concerning tithes. Lord Plunkett said, that if the noble Lord meant to say, that Dr. Doyle had been made a Magistrate, he (Lord Plunkett) had no recollection of any such thing having taken place: if it had taken place, it was very unlikely that he should have forgotten such a circumstance with regard to so remarkable a person, and he |