ment at Sierra Leone had been removed to | by salaries, or fees, in future. The vote, Fernando Po, where it was necessary to at all events, was intended only to apply establish buildings for the Commissioners this year. A reduction of five per cent and Officers, but it now appeared that Fer- had been made, but probably it would be nando Po belonged to the Spaniards. better if the vote were withdrawn for the They had not attempted, therefore, to present. remove the settlement from Sierra Leone, until this question was settled; for it would be absurd to lay out money at a place under such circumstances. SUPPLY-CONSULS.] The next question was, that 101,1957. be granted for the salaries of Consuls, and their contingent expenses, with superannuation allowances. Mr. Spring Rice said, in this vote there was a reduction of 5,7351. Colonel Sibthorp despaired, while we had such brigades of Consuls, of seeing reductions of any moment made in this department of expenditure. In France we supported twelve Consuls; for what purposes were they required, except for the exercise of patronage, and to enjoy comfortable pensions on their return? If any hon. Member would propose a reduction of nine-tenths of these Consuls, he would support him. Mr. Spring Rice assured the hon. Gentleman that no such practice prevailed, as appointing persons to obtain pensions. The retired list had been examined, and considerable expense saved to the country, by recalling into active service, at reduced salaries, persons who had been improperly placed on it. Mr. R. Gordon thought, that Consuls should be paid by fees, rather than by salaries. We had Consuls at Rotterdam and Amsterdam, both of whom were paid the same sum, but the former had three times as much work as the latter. The Consul-general at Paris, was paid 1,6007., the same as the Consul-general at Madrid; but what had the latter to do? The list abounded with the same objectionable items; he wished, therefore, to understand whether the present system was to continue, or the whole to be referred to a Committee? Sir James Graham would repeat what he had before declared, that the present system of paying Consuls was not a proper one, but a majority of that House had thought otherwise. His noble friend, the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department, would, from the inquiries he had made, be able to state whether it was advisable for the system of payment to be VOL. IV. {d} Series Third Mr. George Robinson should make no remark if it was intended to withdraw the vote. Vote withdrawn. SUPPLY-CONVICTS AT BOTANY BAY, &c.] The next vote was, that a sum of 120,000l. be granted for the expenses of Convicts sent to New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land. Mr. Hume objected, that no account of this expenditure was laid before the House. They went on year after year pursuing the same course, voting money without knowing how it was to be applied; they had been promised a Colonial Budget, and nothing could be more simple than giving an account of receipts and payments, which would enable the House to comprehend the cost of each colony: such an account ought to be furnished. Mr. Spring Rice said, this was a usual vote, but he admitted that, so far as it was paid out of the Army Extraordinaries, nothing could be more unsatisfactory; for, by the manner of making up their accounts, charges of various sorts were mixed up together. The Government were in communication with the home and local authorities, and they hoped next year to present an intelligible account. Lord Howick stated, that this service would be remodelled, and regular accounts laid before the House; he assured the hon. member for Middlesex, that there was much business to do in the Colonial Department. Mr. George Robinson said,that within the last four years they had had several Colonial Secretaries and Under Secretaries, which was the cause why the most important business was deferred, neglected, or not understood. It would be utterly impossible to carry on our colonial affairs, if the persons at the head of them were continually changed, and had the business of the office continually to learn. There was, no doubt, much to do in the Colonial Office, but he protested against the manner in which it was at present attempted to be performed. They never could have the Colonial Budget, which had been promised, until an alteration was made. 3 A Mr. Hunt said, the great objection to such a plan was, it would take away the patronage of Government. He, for one, however, was perfectly satisfied, that the nation could do without that patronage. Colonel Evans thought the expenses enormous, and to him it was wonderful how they had increased to such a frightful and ruinous extent. Mr. Maberly said, that a Colonial |able surplus. All the colonies ought, Budget had been recommended by the also, gradually to be removed from under Finance Committee, and he hoped it our control. would be produced as soon as possible, as it would much facilitate their proceedings. Mr. Warburton said, it was the proper business of the Colonial Secretary to make out a budget. He hoped, in future, that this vote would not be connected with the Army Extraordinaries in the colonies, which in New South Wales alone cost 400,000l. There must necessarily be great mismanagement somewhere. The value of convict labour was great, and might be advantageously applied to tillage; there were many settlers willing to employ them, but Government monopolised their labour, and the country had to pay for it. Another evil was, granting tracts of land to Government officers, who were thereby objects of suspicion and envy, on account of their being supposed able to procure Government labourers. Lord Howick assured the hon. Gentleman, that the most positive orders had been given, that convicts, immediately on their arrival in the settlements, should be assigned by the civil power to settlers. The report of the Commissioners on the subject of New South Wales, recommended an assessment of 10s. per head on each convict. Lord Goderich thought a larger sum might be raised, but felt it impossible to transmit precise orders. The settlers certainly should have the benefit of the convicts' labour. No grants whatever of land had been made for some time, but the whole had been put up for sale. Vote agreed to. 14,2507. was granted, for defraying fees on Turnpike Road Acts. SUPPLY-LAW COMMISSIONS.] The next vote was, that 29,9001, be granted for the expenses of the Commissioners of Law Inquiry. Mr. Hume did not know what public benefit had been derived from this expensive Commission, from which several reports had been received, but not acted on. This service could have been performed gratuitously, and the Commissioners had effected no useful object. Mr. Spring Rice replied, that the Commissioners had pursued a useful inquiry into the obtaining of cheap and speedy justice. The Commission had been forced upon the preceding Government by the former Opposition, and it was obliged to find means for carrying it into effect. Mr. O'Connell thought, the Commissioners had made great progress in mystifying the subject. Their whole machinery was most expensive, and would never Mr. Dixon believed there must be a lead to cheap and expeditious justice. large expenditure to maintain the colony. Our system of law ought to be remodelled. The fairest method, however, was, to al-It was of no use to attempt to patch up the low the convicts to be sold to the highest bidder among the settlers. A large revenue might thus, he believed, be obtained by the sale of convict labour. Mr. Goulburn understood, from the statement of the noble Lord, that a tax was to be imposed on the labour of convicts: he doubted the propriety of taxing the agricultural produce of such a colony as New South Wales. old system. With all the expense attending this Commission, only four or five bills had been brought in-and cases would be decided before these could be understood, or known to be in operation. It would, on the whole, be infinitely better, to form a new and complete code, particularly as an offer had been made by a celebrated individual to devote his time and attention to this subject. Mr. Robert Gordon understood there were twelve Commissioners, who received 1,2001. a-year each. He should, therefore, be glad to know the quantity of labour the public received in return for this Colonel Torrens contended, that it was owing to the grossest mismanagement if these colonies were of the smallest expense to the mother country. He would undertake, by the sale of colonial lands, under proper regulations, not only to fur-expense. nish sufficient funds for the maintenance Mr. Burge said, in the last Parliament, of the colonies, but to yield a consider-five or six Acts had been formed on the 1445 Supply-Public Works. {JULY 18} Cotton Factories Apprentices. 1446 reports of these Commissioners, which reports cost a great sacrifice of time, labour, and talent. The eminent persons who devoted their acquirements to so valuable an object as that of effecting a tranquil and complete reform in the law, so as to enable the people to obtain speedy and cheap justice, ought to be well paid for their trouble. Mr. Calley wished hon. Gentlemen would allow the Reform Bill to be first carried, before they made these objections. After that, he should be very glad to listen to their arguments, however long they might be. Mr. D. W. Harvey said, the public had not received one practical advantage from the labours of the Commissioners, and had neither obtained more cheap, nor more expeditious law than before. At no former period had the Law Courts been so full of causes remaining to be tried. Vote agreed to. 1,8461. 3s. for the purchase of a pension granted by former kings to James Waller and his heirs, and 10,5007. for the expenses of printing Public Records, were voted without remark. SUPPLY-PUBLIC WORKS.] 38,8007. was then moved for, to pay off Exchequer Bills, issued for carrying on Public Works, Fisheries, and building additional Churches. Mr. Hume said, that 1,500,000l. had been raised by taxation for building of churches, and he should wish to know, before the present grant was passed, whether all that money had been expended. He was afraid the money had been thrown away, or even worse employed, by the Commissioners forcing churches upon the people, which had carried discord into many parishes. Mr. Goulburn thought hon. Gentlemen should be acquainted with facts before they made assertions. In one parish only had there been a dispute as to the propriety of building a church; and when the real benefit these grants had conferred was considered, their utility ought not to be questioned upon slight grounds, Colonel Evans thought no further grant was required. Much money had been already spent, and it was not denied, that disputes had taken place, and that discord had been engendered. Vote agreed to. 2,000,000l. to discharge the amount of supplies granted for previous yearsand 25,576,600l. to pay off and discharge Exchequer Bills, charged on the supplies of 1830 and 1831, unprovided for, were voted without remark. House resumed. MASTER OF THE MINT'S SALARY BILL.] Lord Althorp moved, this Bill be read a third time. Mr. Courtenay had several objections to the Bill, which, however, bore more upon the subject of Pensions in general, than this Bill in particular. He thought, he should be able to shew, at a proper opportunity, that the reduction of salaries proposed by the present Ministry had been unwise. He would not further oppose the bill, but begged to inquire of the noble Lord, if he intended to submit any proposition to the House, for carrying into effect the reduction of salaries recommended by the report of a Committee presented in April last. Lord Althorp could not at present answer the question of the right hon. Gentleman, as he was wholly unprepared for it. Mr. Hume was sure, that, taking into consideration the salary of the Master of the Mint, and the duties he had to perform, he was not deserving of much consideration, or entitled to expect much. He had long formed an opinion, that persons employed in public offices should be allowed, while they were able to work, sufficient to enable them to maintain themselves when they were no longer capable of performing their duties. Bill read a third time, and passed. COTTON FACTORIES APPRENTICES BILL.] Mr. Poulett Thomson said, several Members, who were not then present, had determined to oppose the Bill; in their absence, he thought it ought to be postponed. He himself did not entertain a favourable opinion of it, but he believed it might be improved in a Committee. The Bill was unknown in Ireland and Scotland. If his hon. friend would consent to omit these two countries for the present, and in the meantime have its contents circulated, he could have no objection to its going formally into a Committee. If this could not be done, he must suggest that it be postponed to a future day. Mr. Hobhouse was anxious the Bill should be allowed to go into a Committee, | viction of the utter impossibility that this even for a few minutes, and he would Palace could ever be made a residence fit then be ready to attend to the suggestions for the accommodation of a King and of his hon. friend. Queen of this country. He had stated that opinion, even in the very commencement of the building, and over and over again during its progress; he had always contemplated with the deepest regret, an expenditure so enormous, and so useless. The Palace was surrounded by nuisances of every description; and placed between two ponds of water, and a great mound of Mr. Maberly said, this was a perfectly new enactment for Ireland and Scotland, and it was now too late to go into it. These countries must be struck out, and the Bill proceeded with as regarded England only. If the hon. member for Westminster intended to proceed with it, several Members from Scotland were anxious to have an opportunity of discussing its de-earth which masks the Mews, but impedes. tails, and if it was likely to be of any benefit to that country, they would be most ready to adopt it. Mr. Benett could affirm, that great apprehensions were entertained of the measure in several parts of the country. He had received several applications from those interested, to transmit the Bill to them, that they might examine its details. As yet he had received no information in return. He would not object to the Bill going formally into a Committee, but he must suggest the propriety of not proceeding further until their constituents had apprized them whether any of the details were considered objectionable. An Hon. Member could declare, that in Scotland great alarm had been felt at the introduction of the Bill; it was considered very injurious to persons engaged in the trade which would be affected by it. He must, therefore, join with other hon. Members to request a further delay, and for an opportunity of amply discussing the mea sure. Bill reported, and to be printed. BUCKINGHAM PALACE.] Col. Trench rose to bring forward the subject of which he had given notice, which related to applying Buckingham Palace to a profitable purpose. Every one would admit, that there had been a most injudicious and extravagant outlay at Buckingham House; and it was his object to shew how, instead of being a dead loss, it might be made convenient to the public, and profitable to the Crown. The words of his notice were as follows:-"That it be an instruction to the Committee on Buckingham Palace, to consider whether the building now erected for a Palace, may not be more advantageously applied to other purposes, and to what purposes?" The foundation of all his speculation was a decided con the circulation of air. Close to it is a steam-engine and a great brewery; and within thirty feet of the chapel, is a sort of a great Caravansera, where persons coming from the country on business put up their carriages and horses. Besides which, rows of very small houses, and lanes and alleys surround it, and must, sooner or later be cleared away, at an enormous expense. The main sewer, too, passes close to the front of the Palace. The building being decidedly unfit for a palace, he would venture to suggest how it might be disposed of to useful and profitable purposes. In the first place, a National Picture Gallery was wanted: a very splendid and beautiful one could be obtained, of no less than 526 feet in length, of which the actual picture gallery of Buckingham Palace would form a part. Towards the garden front, a statue gallery might be formed, of smaller dimensions, but of unequalled beauty and fitness, and at a very trifling expense. The building now erecting to form the east wing of Somerset House, and intended for the King's College, is peculiarly unsuited to such a purpose; and he proposed, therefore, that whatever accommodation that building was capable of affording to the King's College at a future day, should be given to that institution forthwith at Buckingham House, in exchange for this new building, which, in the hands of the Government, would afford admirable accommodation for public offices, where they ought to be placed, and would save the public a sum of 15,000l. per annum, now paid for offices and houses in different parts of the town, exclusive of the establishments in Downing-street, with which no one could think of interfering. At twenty years' purchase, this saving would produce 300,000l., of which he took 200,000l. to the credit of the King's Fund, leaving 100,000l. a saving to the public. He had then to state the accom- a wasteful and extravagant expenditure, modation which would be required in ex- that it would bring back into the Treasury change for the King's College. He had of the Crown so considerable a portion, made some inquiries and calculations on was, in his mind, a subject of congratulathe subject, and found that there would tion for the House and for the country. be ample accommodation at Buckingham There would thus be a large sum of money Palace, equal to the accommodation of ready to apply for the accommodation of the King's College, leaving, besides the the Sovereign, in such manner as might picture gallery, the statue gallery, and the hereafter be deemed advisable, and withattics, a considerable portion of the build-out taking one single shilling from ing to spare, which might be appropriated the people. He knew how this money to bring in a revenue, or to save expense. might be employed, so as equally He would then shortly state the amount to contribute to the splendor of the which might be recovered for the Crown out Crown, and conciliate the feelings of the of the immense and extravagant disburse-people; but he would not abuse the ments on account of this palace. On account kindness of the House, and would thereof the King's College, he took credit for a fore abstain from entering further into sum of 200,000l. The building itself might | detail, only observing, that after making have cost about 100,000l.; but the pos- ample allowance for a too sanguine view, session of it for public offices would save there would remain a sum quite sufficient the nation 15,000l. per annum-at twenty to make a suitable royal residence years' purchase, 300,000l. Of this he only wherever it might be most agreeable to our took 200,000l., leaving 100,000l. for the gracious Sovereign. He could not refrain benefit of the public. The picture gal- from lamenting over the mischief arising lery he estimated at 80,000l.-the statue from the want of well-digested general gallery at 50,0007.-130,000l. The re- plans of improvement, and of a system mainder of the building, including the which should make every expenditure, attics, might be appropriated to the Public however trifling, contribute its mite towards Records for a Public Library-to the the completion of some general and wellHeralds' College-Royal Society-Anti- considered designs. The hon. and gallant quarian Society-Royal Academy-Asiatic Member concluded by making the Motion Institution, &c., 70,000l.: making on the of which he had above given notice. whole, an amount of 400,000l. To this, various items of decoration, which ought to be removed, as unfit for any building but a royal palace, must be added, which would amount to 94,0811. The cellarage, under the whole of the building, 2,000l. per annum, at twenty years' purchase, amount to 40,0007.; the garden, if laid out judiciously, would give 15,000 feet of frontage, which, at 37. per foot, amounts to 45,000l. per annum, of ground rent; and this, at twenty-seven years' purchase, would produce 1,215,000l.; so that the Crown would thus be possessed of a fund for building a royal palace in a proper situation, and without imposing any new burthen on the people, of 1,749,0817. Seeing the hon. member for Middlesex in his place, he would state, for his information, a short and simple fact. The property in question cost originally 32,000l. Now, after adding 600,000l., or, for the sake of round numbers, 668,000l. of expenditure equally lavish and absurd, still, if appropriated as he had suggested, and producing 1,700,000l., it would have increased in value 1,000,000l. Admitting Mr. Hume begged to second the motion of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, and was anxious the inquiry for which he moved should take place. Numerous complaints had been promulgated of the expenditure in the erection of the Palace, and the only way to stifle them, and prevent the enormous outlay lavished on this building from becoming a dead public loss, was to appropriate it to the purposes recommended by the hon. Gentleman. Mr. Goulburn had heard with much pleasure his hon. friend's plan to employ Buckingham Palace in a way likely to give the public some return for the vast sums squandered in its erection. Great abuses, he was afraid, had been committed by the persons employed on it, and very little light had yet been thrown upon the subject. He thought, however, it was not right for the House to dispose of the Crown property, unless the responsible advisers of the Crown proposed such appropriation. Mr. Robert Gordon saw no difficulty in the matter, as connected with any interests the Crown might be supposed to have in it, |