to the relations at present subsisting be-
tween Portugal and France.
He was
prepared to admit that there were treaties
between England and Portugal, which
did not subsist between Portugal and
France; and that England was bound by
these treaties to yield to Portugal her
countenance and assistance when an emer-
gency required it. He was ready, also, to
admit the necessity of preserving, for the
benefit of both countries, all our friendly
relations with Portugal; but, at the same
time, he denied that England was bound
by any treaty to assist Portugal in a mat-
ter which plainly arose out of her own
misconduct, in a gross denial of justice.
England had demanded reparation for in-

the impossibility of insisting on the performance of conditions which were to be fulfilled in the jurisdiction of Miguel himself, and he had been answered by the noble Duke, as plainly as words could convey his meaning, that, under such circumstances, they could employ remonstrances and friendly advice, but would not be justified in doing anything more. Our Government was to be a sort of guarantee for the observance of that amnesty on the part of the Portuguese Government. But what happened? The amnesty was agreed to in the first instance by Don Miguel; but then there was a sort of second condition annexed-"I will do this thing, if you will do another; but then what I propose to do is to be de-juries, and when that reparation was, acpendent upon something else which has not yet occurred;" and in this way the amnesty was put off, and up to this hour had not passed: and from what did occur, it did not appear that Don Miguel was disposed to concede the amnesty required. He did not mean to contend that the very worst government-the Government of Don Miguel-might not be so established as that we should be justified in opening or continuing diplomatic relations with it. But how stood the case with the government of Portugal? The noble Earl might not approve, perhaps, of the mode in which the power of Don Miguel was acquired; but would he approve of what followed? Let their Lordships consider the number of his subjects who were thrown into gaol, and with whom the prisons of Portugal were yet filled; the sort of police established in Lisbon and other parts of the kingdom, such as no person had ever seen in any other country, certainly not in the country the sovereign of which reigned in the hearts and affections of his people. Could the noble Earl, after what had come to his own knowledge, be surprised that the government of Don Miguel had not yet been acknowledged? The noble Earl had asked him what was it that he expected which would make it a matter of congratulation on the part of his Majesty that the relations with Portugal should be renewed? He might as well ask the noble Earl, in his turn, what was it that he had expected which made him delay that acknowledgment for two years and a half? The same causes which induced the noble Earl to withhold the acknowledgment were still in operation. He would then say one word with respect

cording to the noble Earl, culpably delayed, it had been enforced. Immediately afterwards complaints were made on the part of the French government of nearly similar outrages. Did the Portuguese government attempt to palliate those offences or explain them? No; on the contrary, the French Consul, who made remonstrances and demands on the part of his Government, was informed, that as his functions were wholly commercial, and his demands related to political matters, they could not be listened to, and no answer could, therefore, be given. The French then proceeded, as the Government of this country had done before it, to enforce its demands; and he would ask the noble Earl, whether he would have said to a government like that of France, and under the same circumstances, "You are proceeding to enforce your demands against Portugal, as we have done, but we prohibit you to do so, and will decide the matter for you?" Would that government, he would ask, acquiesce in such a course? Would the Government of this country listen for a moment to such a demand or prohibition or pretension on the part of France? This was the dangerous position in which Portugal was placed. The noble Earl, however, asked if there was war between France and Portugal? He (Lord Grey), in answer to that question, must say, that he did not consider an order for Reprisals a Declaration of War; but whether the course pursued by Portugal led to war or not, he was sure if an opportunity offered, that the Government of this country would lose no occasion of doing everything that could be done in the way of advice and mediation, in order to

bring about an amicable settlement. But | perniciously entering into the details of then a difficulty intervened: we ourselves negotiations which were still pending, and were not on terms of diplomatic inter- the issue of which might be seriously afcourse with Portugal, and even if we were, fected by discussion in that House; but there was a difficulty in interposing be- he repeated, that he would not shrink from tween nations, one demanding satisfaction the fullest investigation, when his duty to from the other, when the government from his Sovereign, and a due regard to the which satisfaction was sought would not honour and interests of the country, pereven give an answer to the demand. mitted him to enter on it. He implored Whichever way the case was viewed, it their Lordships, however, to consider the was one of difficulty and delicacy. Thus delicate and difficult situation in which much he would add, that the Government the Government was placed, when it reof this country never could look with in- quired this indulgence with the elements difference on any event which was likely of revolution so spread around, that to affect the integrity or independence of the slightest spark might kindle such a Portugal; and trusting that the Portu- general conflagration as would involve the guese Government would speedily set institutions of this country and of Europe itself right with France, by offering the in the greatest hazard of ultimate dereparation she was entitled to demand, he struction. One word he would add with could assure their Lordships that the respect to France. He agreed with the Government was at all times anxious to noble Earl that it was of the greatest impreserve the faith of treaties, and to secure portance to the interests of the world that the prosperity of Portugal. The noble the present government of France should Earl, passing to the question of Terceira, be settled on a secure foundation, for he described the conduct of the Government believed, in common with the noble Earl, established there, in terms on the justice of that it was sincerely desirous to fulfil its which he would not then pronounce an engagements with all other States-to opinion; and complained of the attack promote the prosperity of France, and to made by it on the neighbouring islands, and preserve the peace of Europe. It was, of the manner in which it was carried on. therefore, extremely proper at the present Now, did the noble Earl mean to say, that moment, not to do or say anything through the Government of this country was really which that government might be either bound to interfere for the purpose of pre- forced, by public opinion, to adopt a venting that attack? The noble Earl different course of policy, or overturned spoke as if the honour of England had in its resistance to it; for in such a misbeen tarnished, by permitting the vessels fortune the balance of power could no of its subjects to be seized for the convey- longer, from the hands into which the ance of the troops on that occasion; and government must then fall, be effectually he spoke of the government of Terceira preserved, and the consequence would deriving its support from piracy. If it probably be the commencing of a devaswere true that that government practised tating and destructive war. Under such piracy, it was the duty of this and every circumstances, these discussions were, in other Government to put it down; but his opinion, most prejudicial, and ought, he confessed he was ignorant of the if the Government of this country was events mentioned by the noble Earl, until considered worthy of any confidence, to be he heard them in that House; and having carefully avoided. sent to the Foreign Office to inquire, he had just received the following answer :"A Captain of a vessel has made representations on the subject to the Foreign Office, but many of the facts are positively denied; and the whole case is under consideration." He thought it could scarcely be denied, that there was nothing in this which showed that the honour and interests of England were not steadily maintained. He had now stated to their Lordships all that was in his power to communicate, without prematurely and

The Duke of Wellington said, it was not his intention to prolong the discussion unnecessarily, but he did think the noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government had not done his noble friend justice, nor had he done justice to the preceding Government. His noble friend (the Earl of Aberdeen) was perfectly consistent in joining in the unanimous vote on the Address the other evening, and in bringing forward the topics which he had this evening introduced to the House. There was nothing in what fell from his noble

and of the treaties he took such pains to conclude, had that object in view as necessary to the permanent repose of Europe. Consistently with that, by those negotiations he had endeavoured to strengthen Holland by uniting it with Belgium as a barrier towards that part of the north of Europe. On this, as on one great basis, were the negotiations at the peace founded; on this, in a great degree, that peace itself rested. And what was the consequence? Why, that this country and Europe have enjoyed since 1814, with the short interval of war caused by the invasion of Napoleon, a longer period of peace than it had known almost for centuries. That period of tranquillity was broken up by the events of July in France, and of August and September in Belgium. He did not seek to qualify his expressions with respect to these events. He would not qualify them further than by expressing his conviction that the situation of the countries which those events affected was, at that time, the best for the people themselves, as well as to preserve their internal tranquillity, and to maintain the peace of Europe. This Government, however, could not prevent what happened, and when his Ma

friend this evening in any degree inconsistent with the vote he then gave. His noble friend admitted the correctness of the principles laid down with respect to the conferences. He took a review of the leading topics introduced in the Speech, and commented on them as he proceeded; but while he concurred in the principles laid down, as far as they went, he warned and properly warned, Ministers of the consequence of a departure from those principles in any future negotiations. There was, then, he repeated, nothing in this in any degree inconsistent with the vote his noble friend gave on the Address. But the defence of the course taken by his noble friend was not the only object with which he rose. He was anxious to say a few words as to some topics which had been introduced by the noble Earl. The noble Earl complained of the. difficulties of the Government as he had found it on the retirement of the late Administration. Far be it from him to underrate any of the difficulties of office; all he meant to contend for was, that those of which the noble Earl complained, were not produced by the conduct of the late Ministry. They arose out of the state of events which had re-jesty was called upon to interfere, so as to cently occurred in Europe, over which the British Ministers did not and could not exercise any control. They arose out of the events which had occurred in France and Belgium, and which as far as he knew, could not be controlled by any human being unless by the Government of those countries. With the occurrence of these events they had had nothing to do, and whatever might be their results, his Majesty's late servants could not charge themselves with having applauded them. They foresaw the mischief they were likely to produce, and they acted on the plan on which, as far as he could see, the present Government now acted, with considerable success. He would beg of their Lordships to consider what had been the policy of this country for the last 150 years. It was, to keep Belgium out of the possession of France. This was the policy strenuously advocated by the noble Earl (Earl Grey) himself, and as strenuously by the noble Baron (Lord Holland). His noble friend who conducted the foreign relations of the country at the conclusion of the general peace (the late Lord Londonderry) had taken the same view of this question, and the whole of the negotiations which he entered into,

place things in the Netherlands in the same state as before, the Government declined the interference farther than proposing an armistice between the contending parties, for the purpose of seeing what could be done between them by mediation. The proposition was not wholly acceded to; but he thought that anything was better than a continued warfare between countries which had been so long united. He still adhered to the opinion that the former state of things would tend more to the security of Europe from war than any other political arrangement that could be made. With respect to the negotiations that had been carried on for the settlement of Belgium, he approved of all the steps the noble Lord had taken, to give that security to other Powers which they had a right to require with respect to the State of Belgium. He gave the noble Lord full credit for all he had done on this subject, and was ready to believe that he had acted in full accord with France and our other allies. Having done so, he entreated the noble Lord not to depart from the course he had hitherto pursued, but to persevere till the last moment to act in cordial alliance with France and our allies, and

HOUSE OF COMMONS,
Friday, June 24, 1831.

let the noble Lord rely upon it, whatever difficulties might exist, he would get, the better of them, and would do himself and the country immortal honour. In respect to Portugal, the treaties which bound us to that country and our own interests lay in the same direction. It became his Majesty's Government to look at the serious situation in which not only Portugal but all Europe might be placed if a proper course were not taken. They would do well to consider how important Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. BURGE, Copies of

MINUTES.] Bills brought in. By Mr. PORTMAN, to Consolidate and Amend the Laws relating to Highways in England and Wales. By Mr. EVANS, to prevent the application of Corporate Property to the purpose of electing Members. By Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS, for regulating the Sale of Coals in London, and places adjacent. By Lord NUGENT, to abolish certain Oaths and Affirmations in Customs and Excise Departments. By Mr. S. RICE, to enable the King to make Leases, &c. of Lands in Cornwall. By Mr. R. GORDON, for regulating the Care and Treatment of Insane Persons in England.

the Laws passed by the Colonial Legislatures, for the relief of Catholics, Jews, and Free Persons of Colour; the Amount of the Civil, Ecclesiastical, and Military Establishments of Jamaica, the expenses of which are defrayed by the Island; and of the Ways and Means of raising Revenues for the last ten years, for such purpose; and similar Returns from the other West-India Islands; also, for Returns made by British Consuls, respecting the South American Trade, from October, 1823, to the latest date:On the Motion of Mr. Alderman THOMPSON, the Official value of Goods Warehoused in London, from 1825 to 1830, inclusive; and account of Goods actually in Bonded Warehouse on the 5th January, 1831 :-On the Motion of Mr. HUME, of the General Disbursements of Military Asylums at Chelsea, Isle of Wight, and Southampton, distinguishing cach, for 1828, 1829, and 1830; and for Accounts of Salaries and Allowances exceeding 750l. a year; and for the average charge for each Child:-On the Motion of Mr. RUTHVEN, all Informations filed in the Irish Court of Exchequer, for the recovery of Penalties under the Excise Laws, specifying the Offence, Proceedings, and Costs. Petitions presented. By Mr. O'CONNELL, against further Grants to the Kildare Street Society, from Tralee; and in favour of Reform, from Maglass, Ballamore, and other places:-By Mr. H. BULLER, from Cawston for Reform. By Mr. WYSE, from Inhabitants of Kilfien, for aid to Emigrate, and from the said persons, against further Grants to the Kildare Street Society. By Mr. J. WILLIAMS, from Free-holders and Inhabitants of the County of Carmarthen, for additional Representatives. By Mr. HUME, from the Working Classes of Aberdeen and Nairn, in favour of Reform. By Mr. HUNT, from Inhabitants of Bolton-le-Moors, in favour of Election by Ballot; and from Stockport, for Repeal of the Corn Laws. By Mr. PORTMAN, from Broadway (Dorset), for a summary and less expensive mode for the recovery of Small Debts; from the Inhabitants of Gillingham, for the Abolition of Slavery; and from the Managers of the Blandford Savings' Bank, for alteration of the Act 9th Geo. 4th, c. 92, respecting the Amount allowed to be invested.

it was, that all questions of disputed Sovereignty should be put an end to without loss of time, more particularly this question relating to Don Miguel; for if it caused the invasion of Portugal by France, the consequence would be, to involve the whole peninsula in one conflagration. Such an occurrence was to be deprecated at all times, more particularly now, when Spain was in a state of complete tranquillity, and, as far as he understood, in a state of prosperity. The question of the disputed succession of Don Miguel was no longer a question between this country and Brazil. Some time had elapsed since Don Pedro could assert the claims of his daughter, and it was evident that he could now give no assistance (being in need of assistance himself) in placing her upon the Throne of Portugal. Under all the circumstances of the case, he thought it incumbent on us to endeavour to settle the question, and take steps to get out of the difficulty in which we and our Allies found ourselves placed with respect to Portugal. With this view, we should endeavour to bring Portugal once more into the society. of nations, in order to render it available to the general purposes of Europe if required. He did not wish the noble Lord to interfere unnecessarily between France and Portugal, but he repeated that he ought to endeavour to bring Portugal back into the society of nations, by acknowledging Miguel, and inducing other nations to follow our example. In conclusion, the noble Duke observed, that the state of things in the Western Isles was such as could not be contemplated with satisfac-got up by certain persons connected with tion, and that considerable apprehensions the Corporation, on pretence of applying must be entertained from its continuance. a charitable fund, existing in the town, to

REFORM.-PETITIONS.] Mr. W. Bankes presented a Petition from the Mayor, Burgesses, and Householders of Marlborough, against the Reform Bill.

Mr. L. Wellesley said, he was instructed to state, that the petition did not speak the sentiments of the great body of respectable inhabitants of Marlborough; that it was

the benefit of those who signed it, and
who were under the influence of the noble
Marquis who was denominated the patron
of the borough. The petition did not ex-
press
the general sentiments of the inhabit-
ants of Marlborough.