duce of the soil of Poland than obtain | turers, and not as to the cost of produccorn by cultivating barren land at home. tion in this and foreign countries. What As he had before said, if taxes were laid the difference of those burthens was, he upon the landed interest, let them be re- was not prepared to say, but he knew there moved, and placed on the country at large, were many changes which affected perand let corn be drawn from those countries sonal property to which a part of agriculwhich could supply it so much cheaper tural property was not liable. than it could be grown here. When the question was entered upon, the system of averages must be attended to, for the corndealers, by raising the price in a small degree, had it in their power to obtain larger gains. Colonel Sibthorp did not wish to prolong the discussion, but he could not hear such sentiments as those expressed by the hon. member for Preston without protesting against them. When the subject was regularly brought before the House, he should feel it his duty to state his opinions; and he was satisfied that no difficulty existed in showing that the agricultural interests were heavily taxed, and were entitled to have protecting duties imposed upon foreign corn brought hither for consumption. Mr. Alderman Thompson was fully persuaded, that great injury was done to the agriculturist, as well as to the manufacturer, by the constant fluctuation in the prices of corn. If a protecting duty, equal to what the manufacturer possessed, were imposed, it would prove advantageous. He did not agree with those who thought it advisable to have a free importation of corn. Mr. Warburton considered it a great evil to be subject to the constant variations in the price of corn which took place under the present system of the Corn-laws. We never could hope, indeed, to keep the price quite steady, for corn was subject to variations in price occasioned by the seasons; but he thought means might be devised to render it less fluctuating than at present. That was a point which deserved consideration. He was clearly of opinion, with his hon. friend, the member for Middlesex, that a fixed rate of duty was preferable to the present system; and he was glad to find that there was a growing objection to the mode of averages. If a fixed duty were agreed upon by the House, he thought that it ought to be a low one. The principle on which the hon. member for Preston proceeded was, that there should be a duty equivalent to the peculiar burthens which affected agriculturists, as compared with manufacVOL. IV. Third Series} Mr. J. Benett contended, that there ought to be a duty upon corn imported, equal to the amount of tithes, taxes, and other charges affecting the corn-producer of this country, and he considered a fixed duty would be better for the farmer than the existing system. But, although he disliked the present law, this was not the time to agitate the question; it was calculated to produce a degree of exciteIment which it would be well to avoid. He regretted exceedingly that the conversation upon the subject had taken place, and he hoped that the question would not be introduced until the other great measure, which had been that evening brought before the House, was completed. It was right, however, that the business should be finally settled, for the farmer would not take a lease, while the subject was under agitation, to qualify him to exercise the elective franchise, and might well complain of being deprived, in an indirect manner, of the privileges which he was told the Reform Bill would confer on him. Mr. James Morrison concurred with those hon. Gentlemen who thought it much better, both for the farmer and the manufacturer, that the price of corn should be freed from the fluctuations which took place under the present system. had lately been much in communication with farmers, and they were all against the sytem of taking the averages, as leading to inconvenience and frauds. He An Hon. Member thought the mode of taking averages highly objectionable and faulty. He hoped that discussions on the Corn-laws would not be countenanced by the House; they were calculated to cause an alarm to the farmer without producing any beneficial result. He trusted, that the great, the vital, measure of Reform would be completed before that question was introduced. He agreed with the hon. member for Middlesex, that a fixed duty was much better than the present varying duties, but he again would express a hope that the subject altogether should be deferred until that other great measure had been disposed of. Mr. Cutlar Ferguson protested against N the doctrine of those hon. Members who wished corn to be brought into this country free of duty. Was it desirable to have the English farmer's produce driven out of the market? If corn were so introduced, it would certainly have that effect; and he should be glad to know what would become of the agricultural labourer. If corn were brought from Poland in the way an hon. Member seemed anxious it should, the necessary consequence would be, that the agriculturist would be ruined, and the labourer employed by him would have no means of existence. Surely this was a state of things which no man could desire to see. He must protest against such doctrine as a free importation of corn; and again express his regret, that the subject was introduced; but he trusted that it would not go forth to the world that such opinions as those which he deprecated had been introduced into that House without being condemned. As to a fixed duty, he wished to ask how 10s. a quarter could be levied when the price rose to the famine level? The advantage of the present law was, that under such a circumstance it allowed corn to be imported, while under the circumstance of a low price, it levied a considerable duty on imported corn. The agriculturists ought to know, that the persons who in that House advocated an unrestricted corn-trade were extremely few. Mr. Ruthven believed the agricultural interest would be totally ruined, if foreign corn was imported ad libitum. In Ireland the whole property of the country would be revolutionized, and instead of Poor-laws being wanted for a portion of the people, they would be wanted for the whole. There would be a total cessation of taking and letting lands. Let hon. Members consider how many thousands and tens of thousands of the industrious part of the population would be thrown out of employment were such a system adopted; for it was impossible, under the circumstances in which this country was placed, to compete with foreigners. With respect to the averages he was willing to admit, that some alteration was necessary. He trusted, that the House would never consent to a plan for a free trade in corn. Mr. Jephson believed, a free trade in corn, instead of benefitting, would starve the manufacturers: for he begged to remind the House, that foreign ships which brought corn to this country went away in ballast, and took none of our produce. Returns ordered. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Saturday, June 25, 1831. MINUTES.] Bills brought in. By Lord J. RUSSELL, Reform Bill for England and Wales:-By Mr. O'CONNELL, for the better securing of Roman Catholic Charities. Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. HUME, of the number of Persons appointed to make Returns of Sales of Corn, under 7th and 8th George 4th, c. 58. Mr. Trant begged hon. Members to consider in what a situation the country Petitions presented. By Mr. DIXON, for Repeal of the would be placed should it have to rely upon a foreign nation for its chief support in corn. Suppose we should be shut out from the Baltic by the cholera, or some such disease? [a laugh.] Hon. Members might laugh; but with respect to that disease he begged to say, that he spoke feelingly, having had it himself. It cer tainly was no laughing matter, for what should we do if we were shut out by pestilence from those places from which we derived the principal part of our supplies. Mr. Irving said, that, upon a subject of so much importance, some hon. Members appeared to jump to conclusions which the facts would not warrant. It would be well to look at the fiscal regulations of other countries, which were placed on a system of exclusion as regarded the produce of this country, before any change were meditated with a view of receiving their produce without an imposition of duties. Stamp Duties on Insurances,' from Insurance Brokers, Glasgow, By Mr. VERNON, from Chesterfield, for a Representative for that Borough. By the Earl of UxBRIDGE, from Inhabitants of Llangefric, to participate in the election of a Member with Beaumaris. By Sir C. PAGET, from Bangor, for Reform:- By Mr. DENISON, from Rotherhithe. By Mr. RooPER, from Inhabitants of Bluntisham with Earith, for the Abolishment of Slavery. By Mr. DENISON, from Coal Meters of Surrey, to be placed on the same footing as Coal Meters of London and Westminster. RACING IN IRELAND-THE KING'S PLATE.] Mr. Ruthven asked the right hon. the Secretary at War if it were true that an effort was about to be made, to discourage the breed of horses in Ireland, by withdrawing the King's Plates from that country? Sir H. Parnell said, that as Secretary at War, he could not be expected to know anything of these matters, and begged to refer the hon. Member to some hon. Gentleman belonging to the Treasury for the information he required. Mr. Hume observed, that he had brought the subject forward in the last Parliament, when the Civil List was under the consideration of the House; and his object in so doing was with the view of withdrawing the King's Plates from England as well as Ireland. Mr. Spring Rice said, that no distinction was ever intended to be made between this country and Ireland on the subject of the withdrawing of the King's Plates in the discussion that took place during the last Parliament. His Majesty would make no difference in the encouragement he gave to the breed of horses in Ireland and in England. HOUSE OF LORDS, MINUTES.] Returns Ordered. On the Motion of Viscount MELBOURNE, two of the Standing Orders were dispensed with, in order to allow the Irish Justices of the Peace Indemnity Bill to be read a second and third time; Committee dispensed with, and Bill passed. CHOLERA MORBUS.] The Earl of Orford rose to express a wish that any information which his Majesty's Government possessed, relative to the disease which was now afflicting a part of Europe, and with which, he regretted to say, this country was threatened, might be laid on their Lordships' Table. He hoped the Medical Board appointed by the Government was efficiently composed, and the members of it were well acquainted with the difficult and interesting duty with which they were charged. He asked this question, because he was told by a medical gentleman, on whose experience and good feeling he could rely, that there was not a single member of the Board, who had ever had a case of cholera under his care. He was aware, that the Government had sent out persons for the purpose of inquiring into the nature and progress of the disorder; and he hoped, when their reports were received, that there would be no objection to produce them. He did not wish to embarrass the Government in the slightest degree; but he could not help repeating, that in his opinion there ought to be added to the Board some medical gentleman who had been conversant with the disease in India. He should like to see a list of the gentlemen who composed that Board laid on their Lordships' Table, and if that were objected to, he should think it his duty to make a formal motion on the subject. The Marquis of Lansdown was understood to say, that the names of the Medical Board were published in the "Gazette," and that he considered to be the regular mode of making the public acquainted with them. He had every reliance on the skill and discretion of those gentlemen, and he had no doubt but they would take all possible modes of making themselves acquainted with the subject, and of communicating with persons who were familiar with the disease and its nature and operation in India. The Government had not been inattentive to the necessity of procuring information, and Dr. Russell, who had much experience in the treatment of the disease in India, had been sent to Riga, for the purpose of ascertaining if the disorder now prevalent was the same as that which had come under his observation in the East. He should be happy to lay before the House copies of any reports or information he might receive on the subject; and he would, therefore, move in the usual manner for copies or extracts of all reports received by his Majesty's Government, relative to the disease now prevailing in the northern parts of Europe. The noble Lord added, that he believed the information, when submitted to the public, would lessen the apprehension which at present prevailed. The Earl of Orford had no wish to interfere with the course which the Government thought best. He only felt the propriety of recommending that some medical man should be added to the Board who had experience of the disease, called the cholera, in India. Lord Teynham hoped the Board would extend its supervision to Dublin. EMPLOYMENT OF LABOURERS.] The Earl of Winchilsea, in laying on the Table a Bill for the better employment of labourers in husbandry and for labour rate, said he would defer any observation upon it until Friday next, on which day he meant to move the second reading. Bill read a first time. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MINUTES.] Bills brought in, and read a first time. By Mr. land). By Lord ALTHORP, to reduce the Salary of the Master of the Mint; and to Repeal an Act prohibiting the act in reference to that subject. He wish Growth of Tobacco in Ireland. Read a second time, ed, in the first instance, to know whether Waterloo Bridge New Street; Buckingham Garden Wall; Customs and Excise Oaths; Duchy of Cornwall Leases; Lunatics Bills Committee; Canada Revenue. Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. ROBINSON, an Account of Gloves imported. On the Motion of Mr. CROKER, the Population (according to the last Census) of Boroughs now sending Members to Parliament, and which it is proposed shall send Members by the Reform Bill. Petitions presented. By Mr. HUNT, from Milborne Port, for Revision of the Tithe Laws; from the Borough of Leslie (Fife), against the East-India Monopoly, and Corn Laws; from Collumkill in Ireland, for the Repeal of the Union; from Llangammarch, and other places in Wales, for alteration in the Tithe Laws. By Lord KILLEEN, any determination had been come to by his Majesty's Government with regard to the petition which had been presented from the inhabitants of Newfoundland, praying that a local legislature should be granted to them. His next question was, whether any instructions had been given to the governor of that colony to protect his Majesty's subjects in exercising their concurrent right with the French, of fish from the County of Meath, in favour of Reform; and ing on what was called the French coast? from Borminy (Meath), for an increased number of Members. By Mr. MORE O'FARREL, from County of Louth, for General Drainage of Bogs. In the third place he was desirous to know, whether it was the intention of the noble Lord to bring in any measures for revising the laws in force in that Island, for regulating the fisheries, and for the administration of justice. If he did not receive satisfactory answers to those questions from the noble Lord, he should feel it his duty to bring the subject under the consideration of the House as soon as possible. Lord Howick begged to state, in answer to the first question of the hon. Member, that the petition referred to had attracted the serious attention of his Majesty's Government, and that it was the full persuasion of his Majesty's Government, that the people of Newfoundland were entitled, taking into account the wealth and im PRIVILEGE.] The Speaker said, that before the House proceeded to public business, it would be as well for him to mention a subject to which his attention had been called in former Parliaments, and which had again, during this Parliament, been made a matter of complainthe alluded to the practice of summoning Members of that House upon Juries during the continuance of the Session. At times, and, of course, when Members had only recently entered that House, they were in doubt as to the course they ought to pursue, for not only was there a summons served on them, to attend in the Courts, but if they neglected that sum-portance of the Island, to have a direct mons there was afterwards a notice of distress issued against them for non-compliance with the summons. Members must know, upon a little consideration of the case, that it was their first duty to attend in their place in that House, and for that reason, and that reason only, they were exempt from attendance on Juries during the Session of Parliament. He was convinced, that the summons to attend the Courts, and the notice of distress afterwards issued, could only proceed from the inadvertence of the officers; and he hoped that from the time of this public | notice, there would be, in the first place, no summons served on a Member during the sitting of Parliament, and certainly not a notice of distress issued in case he did not attend. NEWFOUNDLAND.] Mr. George Robinson wished to put a few questions to the noble Lord opposite, the Under Secretary for the Colonies, with regard to the Island of Newfoundland, and upon the answers which he should receive would depend the mode in which he (Mr. Robinson) should control in the management of their own affairs; but they could not conceal from themselves, that there would be great difficulty in introducing a local legislature into a colony in which there was only one town of considerable importance—namely, St. John's. The other towns of Newfoundland were at a great distance from St. John's; they were all small towns, and the communication between them and St. John's was, during a great portion of the year, entirely cut off. It would be impossible, therefore, if a local legislature were established there, that any finfluence could be possessed over it, unless by the town of St. John's. It was plain, then, that it would be extremely difficult to introduce what was understood by a local legislature into that colony. He trusted, however, that by the adoption of other measures the inhabitants of that Island would obtain some share in the management of their own affairs. With respect to affording protection to the English fishing on the French shore, he did not take the view which the hon. Member appeared to take of that point. It should be recollected that the right to fish there was disputed by the French, and the treaty of 1783, and the declaration which was made subsequently, in consequence of that treaty, rendered it extremely doubtful that the English possessed any such right. At all events, the question was still a matter of doubt; and while it remained undecided, Government could not act as the hon. Member desired. With regard to the revision of the laws in force in Newfoundland, he begged to say, that he had no intention whatever to bring in any new Act for that purpose this Session. Mr. George Robinson said, that under such circumstances, he felt it his duty to give notice, that upon the 5th of July he should move an Address to the Crown, with regard to the state of Newfoundland. REFORM PETITIONS.-RIOTS IN SCOTLAND.] Mr. Charles Douglas, on presenting a Petition from the Noblemen, Freeholders, Justices of the Peace, and Heritors of the County of Forfar, against the Reform in Parliament, as connected with Scotland, said, the petitioners expressed their fears, that the proposed alterations in the manner of returning Members would not be attended with beneficial effects. They complained of the diminution of County Members, and the increase of Borough Representation, and that the admission of 101. householders to the right of voting, would give them an undue preponderance over the landed interest. These were the principal points in the petition, and the petitioners entreated the House not to omit the consideration of these topics in any measure connected with Scotch Representation that might come before them. Mr. Maule observed, that as the petition came from the county which he had the honour to represent, he hoped to be indulged in making a few remarks. He acknowledged the great respectability of the petitioners, but he did not hesitate to aver, that their petition did not speak the sense of the county of Forfar, the inhabitants of which were generally in favour of the measure of Reform introduced by Government. He was glad to have that opportunity to express his grateful thanks to his Majesty's Ministers for having brought it forward, and it should have his humble and sincere support. Mr. Horatio Ross knew something of the county from whence the petition came, and! added his testimony to that of his hon. friend who had just spoken. He believed, that ninety-nine out of every hundred persons of the population of Forfar were favourable to the change proposed by his Majesty's Ministers. Before that plan had been brought forward, there were many persons in favour of Universal Suffrage and Annual Parliaments, but on the details of the proposed measure being placed before them, they expressed their unbounded satisfaction with it, and were now loud in their calls for its being passed into a law. He was sure no measure could have enlisted more of the best wishes of the people, and they would hear no more from that part of the country of Universal Suffrage. Mr. Charles Douglas said, he did not present this as the petition of the county of Forfar, as had been insinuated by the hon. Members, but as the petition of the respectable persons who had signed it, and who resided in that county. He must add, that the petitioners did not express themselves to be unfavourable to Reform generally, they only stated their apprehensions of some parts of the proposed measure. Mr. R. Dundas wished to take that opportunity of asking the Lord Advocate, whether proceedings had been instituted against any of the persons who were concerned in the late riots which had taken place in different parts of Scotland. There had been most formidable riots at Ayr and Dunbar, and in several other places in Scotland; and it would be satisfactory to know whether any proceedings had been taken to bring the offenders to justice. The Lord Advocate said, that he would answer the question of the hon. Member as explicitly as he could at the present moment, seeing that all the proceedings which had been instituted in those cases had not been as yet brought to a termination. He had ordered proceedings to be instituted, and he had to state, that indictments had been drawn out against an individual for being concerned in a riot at Lanark, and also against another rioter in another place. The investigation at Lanark was still going on, and it was expected that the public prosecutor would be able to include another individual in the indictment for the riot there. Indictments had also been preferred against three or four individuals who had been concerned in the formidable riots at Cawdor. It was true, that there had been |