The people in New Jersey had no difficulty in discerning the facts in this matter and in scrutinizing the results of this election I have not been able to find a trace of substantial citizen objection to my position for strict on the gun-control issue for the strictest kind of gun

control law.

The public opinion polls consistently show an overwhelming majority of American citizens favor strict gun control, realizing they are necessary for their own protection. A recent authoritative poll made in New Jersey by the same group which forecast my 1965 election with impressive accuracy, I am glad to say-this was a very comprehensive poll, in the last several weeks, and before the riots in Newark, I might mention-asked this question of the public of New Jersey:

"Suppose a candidate for State office voted for the gun-control law which makes it impossible for certain unqualified people to obtain guns and other firearms. Would this make you more likely to vote for him, less likely to vote for him, or wouldn't this make much difference to you one way or another?" A total of 68 percent of the people answered more likely, and 10 percent answered less likely, others were unconcerned or did not know.

This poll, I think, is in accordance with other authoritative polls which have been taken in this country. The people time and again have reexpressed their deep concern about the loose guns which are being circulated in this country. In New Jersey we speak from experience. We campaigned long and hard for a gun-control bill. We withstood these threats of reprisals at the polls. This saturation mail from sportsmen who have been beguiled into thinking they are going to have to quit hunting, and they could never have a gun if such a law was passed. And we fought some of the gun dealers and their money and their political effort. And, as I say, this opposition blew away.

Our legislators overcame the invective and the threats of a very ioud. I will admit that, very vociferous minority at public hearings, and these highly organized mail campaigns, and they passed the law that was needed.

So New Jersey has done its job through a legislature that shows courage to do what is right. And the effectiveness of this job is deeply hampered by the failure of Congress to enact Federal gun-control legislation, as pointed out by Senator Kennedy.

The immense purchases from neighboring States, the purchases by mail, in a sense abort this kind of effort on the part of the state to protect its citizens.

I believe that the people of America at this juncture expect Congress to show courage now, and to act in protection of the families and the police and the people of America by enacting this bill.

Chairman DODD. I thank you very much, Governor Hughes. That is an important piece of testimony. I may say again, you are certainly qualified to testify here, unusually qualified.

I also say with thanks that we have received a lot of help from you and some of your officials, including Attorney General Sills, to whom Senator Kennedy has referred, who has helped us during the past 3 or 4 years. Capt. Frank J. Pasch of pour State police and others have worked with our staff very closely and have helped us very considerably.

Based on the available information, can you tell us what was the principal source of guns used by rioting snipers during the recent disturbances in Newark and other New Jersey cities?

Governor HUGHES. Well, as I say, Senator, we have filed with the committee a preliminary list, received from the U.S. attorney, David Satz, of the guns seized on arrest. I am not now talking about groups of guns that were found in buildings, but guns seized in possession of a person arrested for some criminal offense.

We do not know the source of these guns yet. They were not purchased in New Jersey since the gun control law would preclude that. We have found that of the persons arrested, I think one out of four had criminal records-criminal records of conviction, which would have disqualified that person from purchasing a gun. Where the guns came from, I do not know. We are engaged in trying to trace them. As you can see from the list, some of them are automatic weapons, many of them are long guns. And it was the long guns were the things used by the snipers. Snipers do not use pistols usually. At least they did not in Newark, to my knowledge. A State policeman off duty but in uniform was one of the last victims, and fortunately lived through it. He was struck simultaneously by a high velocity projectile undoubtedly from a rifle, which went through his arm, and he was struck in an unmentionable part of his anatomy by a buckshot charge at the same time. He fortunate survived and is well at this time, as long as he stands up.

(The list referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 139" and is as follows:)

EXHIBIT No. 139

FROM THE OFFICE OF GOVERNOR RICHARD J. HUGHES OF NEW JERSEY

GUNS SEIZED IN CONNECTION WITH ARRESTS DURING RECENT RIOTS IN NEWARK N.J.

EXHIBIT No. 139-Continued

FROM THE OFFICE OF GOVERNOR RICHARD J. HUGHES OF NEW JERSEY-Continued

GUNS SEIZED IN CONNECTION WITH ARRESTS DURING RECENT RIOTS IN NEWARK N.J.-Continued

Note: The above is a preliminary list supplied by the U.S. attorney's office in Newark.

Automatic pistol...

.25.

346385

12199

Revolver

.22.

558360

12198

Automatic pistol..

.25.

22947C

12197

Shotgun..

290.

16 gage.

12187

.do..

do.

303006

12181

Revolver.

32 caliber.

12100

Shotgun, single barrel.

1078.

12 gage.

12120

Shotgun, pump.

Feather light.

12 gage.

900690

12131

Shotgun, double barrel.

12 gage.

12267

do.

12 gage.

12268

Rifle.

25 caliber

1863527

12268

Revolver.

Dreadnaught

32.

20543

12268

Rifle.

94.

30-30.

2531935

12281

Shotgun, double barrel..

12 gage.

1963

12283

Chairman DODD. You will perhaps be interested to know that the Treasury Department checked 56 dealers in Delaware and New York, Virginia and Maryland, after the trouble in New Jersey, and found that 690 people who were residents of New Jersey purchased rifles and shotguns and handguns. This is a rather significant fact, I think. This was in the months just before the trouble occurred.

I wonder if you know whether or not there was an increase in the use of long guns during the course of the trouble?

Governor HUGHES. Well, the usual run of criminal offenses in New Jersey does not involve the high number of sniper incidents which undoubtedly were due to long guns. The sniper story is one which is somewhat puzzling to me because of numbers involved. The sniping was expert. The crossfire was described to me by police experts as being very expert. The dispersal of snipers, and their jumping from one place to another would indicate if not training at least expertness. Some of the tragic deaths occurred of innocent people in return fire to these snipers. And I withdrew the National Guard and State troopers in New Jersey at a time when snipers were still active. I did that because this activity is so dangerous that it was my decision on the basis of my police advice that it would have taken literally weeks to dig out these snipers, and then we might have found only a small proportion of them. And many policemen and innocent people would die in the process.

So we withdrew the armed patrol and the sniping died out, and in my humble opinion, although I have no evidence of this, I hasten to add, moved on to some other place to snipe at other people, with the guns that they should not have certainly under the existing law. Chairman DODD. That raises another question, and I think an important one.

Do you know if there is any evidence that there was an organization of snipers in Newark who were in the community with firearms purchased prior to the disturbance-certainly not purchased in New Jersey?

Governor HUGHES. I have seen no evidence. I have heard things, I read things. I read a Life magazine interview purportedly with traveling snipers or transient snipers who moved on to some other community. All I know is that sniping occurred, and it was terribly dangerous, and the most tragic thing about it was that innocent people were killed in the crossfire between the snipers and the policemen. Chairman DODD. Do you know whether there were any outsiders, nonresidents of New Jersey, or Newark, who were intercepted and found to be carrying weapons?

Governor HUGHES. Yes. A preliminary report of the U.S. attorney in New Jersey, which was gotten together I think at the joint request of the U.S. Attorney General and myself lists a total of 20 arrests of persons from outside the State, and we find that 18 of those persons were in possession of firearms when apprehended. Some of them came from Brooklyn, Manhattan, Long Island. One from Detroit, by a rather terrible coincidence, and some from other States-a total of 20. Not a very considerable amount in comparison with the enormous numbers of arrests of local people, but nevertheless an interesting distribution.

Eighteen of those twenty were in possession of firearms which are on that list, no doubt, that you have before you.