Senator HRUSKA. Mr. Page, is there any language in S. 1 or Amend ment 90 which would forbid advertising guns with the legend, “It Is a Long Hot Summer Ahead"?

Mr. PAGE. No, sir.

Senator HRUSKA. It cannot be too bad language, then, or certainly it would be prohibited, don't you think?

Chairman DODD. Well, Senator, I am trying to establish, because I believe it to be true, that these people selling this stuff around the country are not interested in the legitimate sportsman.

Senator HRUSKA. Then you have to go a step further and say that the legislation which you propose will prevent them from pursuing that type of merchandise.

Chairman DODD. I think we ought to write legislation to make it so difficult for them that they could not do this sort of thing. Some youngster reads this ad, "Long hot summer," and we are having these dreadful riots all over the country, I think they are buying this stuff. and I think we ought to try to put a stop to it. Because it is not a legitimate sporting weapon. It is obviously not and Mr. Page agrees. Senator HRUSKA. And I agree, insofar

Chairman DODD. Whatever legislation we come up with, we ought to both do the best we can to put an end to it.

That is all I am trying to do.

Senator HRUSKA. Apparently it is not a serious enough problem that you have a provision in your bill, nor the amendment 90, to say this

cannot be done.

Chairman DODD. I thought I did. I do not say I have done it perfectly. I am very anxious to have it strengthened or improved. But I think we ought to be thinking about this. Perhaps a man like you can help us more.

Mr. PAGE. I might say, sir, that control of advertising or control of an individual

Chairman DODD. It is not control of advertising that I am concerned about. It is control over the interstate shipment, sale, and possession of this kind of weapon in this country that I say has to be stopped, and we ought to be able to do it.

Senator HRUSKA. Mr. Chairman, with all due deference to your statement, the great indignation in your voice, by reading "A long, hot summer ahead" would indicate that that does bother you.

Chairman DODD. It does bother me, because of all the disturbar across the country. And, Senator-I overlooked something here. You will be as offended by this as I. In the same advertisement it says:

Congressional Directory. Know where to send those important letters on guz legislation, with this complete address directory of all U.S. Congressmen ata all U.S. Senators in Washington, D.C. The directory is cross-indexed albetically and by state, gives party affiliation, plus important information on the proper way to address your Representatives. Just revised.

This is the same ad of the fellow trying to sell a 30-caliber carlone to sportsmen.

Senator HRUSKA. This Senator would not be one who would apolo gize for the "Congressional Directory." I think it is a notable publ cation. It has my name in it. And it says I am going to be in office for a little while. I would not want to apologize for the "Congressional Directory." Nor can I apologize to any man who says if you have:

message for your Congressman, and you think he is contemplating bad and wicked legislation, write to him and let him know so. I cannot apologize for that. I am not offended by it. I think it is an exercise of free speech and free press.

I do not say I do not characterize your legislation one way or the other. But if there is a complaint against it, I know of no better American custom than to write your Congressman, and if you cannot get him write your Senator.

Chairman DODD. You are such an astute lawyer. That is not my point. You put me in a bad position.

Senator HRUSKA. What is your point?

Chairman DODD. Here is an individual who is selling a weapon that is obviously not a legitimate sports weapon, and Mr. Page agrees. In the same ad in which he seeks to put it across, he urges the purchaser to write to us, obviously to oppose any reasonable control over interstate traffic in firearms.

Senator HRUSKA. That is not what the announcement says. Read it again.

Chairman DODD. You are an astute lawyer. You construe only the letter of it.

Senator HRUSKA. Nobody is opposed to reasonable gun legislation. We have to define "reasonable."

Chairman DODD. You know what they are up to as well as I do. Senator HRUSKA. They are out to sell guns, and they are out to bar bad legislation.

Chairman DODD. Their attitude is to make a buck, and the devil take the worst of it, I suppose.

Anyway, I want to put those advertisements and that legend in the record at this point. I think it ought to be in there.

Senator HRUSKA. Fine.

(The material referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 115" and is as follows:)

EXHIBIT No. 115

[Shotgun News, May 1, 1967]

CONGRESSIONAL DIRECTORY

Know where to send those important letters on Gun Legislation with this complete Address Directory of all U.S. Congressmen and U.S. Senators in Washington, D.C. Directory is cross-indexed both alphabetically and by State. Gives party affiliations. Plus important information on the proper way to address your representative. Just revised. Only $1.00 postpaid.

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Sold on a first come first served basis. Order today. Extra 15 round magazines $.50 each.

Visitors welcome. Barnacle Wharf Trading Co., Box 692-10, 61 Burt Ave., Newark, Ohio 43055.

Chairman DODD. You know in this same publication it says I was in league with the Communists, in offering my gun bill. I am not goi to put that in. But it gives you some idea of what we are up against. Senator HRUSKA. There are some people that have had harsh words for me, both because my bill was too strict, and others because it was too lenient. I do not know that legislators can win on that basis, Senator Dodd, either you or I.

Chairman DODD. I understand that. But I think for our colleagues to understand the whole picture, they ought to know what kind of a campaign of distortion has been waged against us.

Well, I do not want to prolong our witness' appearance here. H has been a good witness. I agree with Senator Hruska.

I just disagree with your views. I have no personal disrespect fo you at all. On the contrary, I have high respect for you. Mr. PAGE. Thank you very much, sir.

Chairman DODD. We will have to take a short recess. We have a

vote.

(Short recess.)

Chairman DODD. Our next witness is Mr. Harry L. Graham. [No response.]

If Mr. Graham is not available, we will take Mr. Blondes. Mr. Leonard Blondes.

Mr. BLONDES. Senator, I wonder if I could make one request. Beina that I basically know your feelings on gun legislation, and on S. 1, and being that I am somewhat sympathetic to your cases, and I have waited now-this is my third call

Chairman DODD. You have been very very patient.

Mr. BLONDES. But, Senator, I do not mean so much that. I would like to ask that I might have others here, other than yourself, before I te tify. I would be very happy to wait.

Chairman DODD. Senator Hruska is on his way back. I just wante to give you a chance to get underway with your statement.

Mr. BLONDES. Fine. Let me get my material, then.

Chairman DODD. I would not want to rush this ahead anyway. I just thought it was getting late. And I am sure Senator Hruska would r object.

You mean you do not want to testify until we have them all here which will be a little more difficult.

Mr. BLONDES. I am not asking quite for that, Senator. But I did f I would like to testify before more than just yourself.

Chairman DODD. All right. Mr. Graham has just come in. I am afra we will not have more than Senator Hruska and myself. Mr. BLONDES. At least I would feel-thank you, sir. Chairman DODD. Mr. Graham.

STATEMENT OF HARRY L. GRAHAM, LEGISLATIVE
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NATIONAL GRANGE

Mr. GRAHAM. Mr. Chairman, I have no reluctance to testify before the two authors of the two bills.

Chairman DODD. Mr. Graham, let me introduce you for the reol. You are the legislative representative of the National Grange. Of course, this is the Nation's oldest farm organization, a highly respected

one. Therefore we are pleased that you could come. Glad to hear your testimony.

Mr. GRAHAM. I have just a short statement.

I would like to make a couple of comments when I get done.

Chairman DODD. I have read your statement. May I suggest something here. I do not think it would be necessary for you to read the resolution.

Mr. GRAHAM. I think that is correct. I think probably I can paraphrase the whole thing, and just enter the statement into the record. Chairman DODD. It will be printed in the record in full.

Mr. GRAHAM. Thank you, sir.

(The prepared statement of Mr. Graham referred to follows:)

HARRY L. GRAHAM, LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE, NATIONAL GRANGE

Mr. Graham has been Legislative Representative of the National Grange, the nation's oldest farm organization, since 1963. He serves on advisory committees of the United States Department of Agriculture, and is also a member of the Agriculture Committee of the National Planning Association.

STATEMENT OF THE NATIONAL GRANGE

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee: My name is Harry L. Graham, and I am Legislative Representative of the National Grange. We would like to express our appreciation to the Subcommittee for providing us this opportunity to state our position on the legislation before you to amend the Federal Firearms Act.

May we say first of all that the Grange has not been unaware of this problem, and some of the most heated debates in the National Grange Annual Sessions, both in the committees and on the Floor, have revolved around the regulation of sidearms and attempts to control the interstate shipment of firearms.

The policy adopted by the National Grange at its 99th Session in Topeka, Kansas was reaffirmed in the 100th Session of the National Grange last November in Minneapolis. It reads as follows:

"Whereas, legislation has been introduced to control the interstate shipment of firearms; therefore be it

"Resolved, That the following statement expresses the policy of the National Grange.

"1. We oppose federal legislation to infringe upon the right of citizens to own or bear arms or that would lead to or impose a federal registration of arms. "2. We recognize the right and duty of the federal government to prohibit the accumulation of an arsenal of similar weapons or any heavy weapons. "3. We recognize the right and responsibility of state, county and local units of government to control the use of hand guns and to prevent their falling into the hands of minors, convicted criminals or those with a history of mental instability.

"4. We would support reasonable legislation to provide controls on the interstate shipment of hand guns and pistols, to prevent their acquisition by juveniles, felons and mentally incompetents."

We have tried to find a balance between what is generally considered a constitutional right to own and bear arms, and an absolute necessity in terms of rural areas which we represent, and some responsibility being assumed for the traffic in hand guns for which there is no other practical purpose except in the commission of a crime.

As is stated in the first part of our resolution, the Grange views a Federal registration of firearms with great alarm, because of the possibility of using this information if it ever became possible that a rebel government of some kind might by armed force take over the United States, they would know exactly who owned firearms and what kind they were.

Thus, the registration of rifles and shotguns-the normal weapons used in eradication of pests and for hunting game-would be opposed without any reservations whatsoever.

On the other hand, we are not so naive as to believe that any group, whether it be the Minutemen, the Klu Klux Klan or the Communist Party should be allowed to accumulate enough weapons to possess an arsenal by legal definition and be usable for armed insurrection against the government. From the second statement of our resolution it should be obvious that we would oppose the traffic of any kind of guns which could be used for purposes of insurrection or making war, and this would include automatic powered weapons, bazookas, anti-tank guns, etc., all of which have been used in recent years for committing crimes There obviously should be strict control over the sale of these weapons and absolute certainty they they are made inoperative permanently before they are permitted to fall into anyone's hands, lest they in turn fall into the hands of a lawless element.

At the same time, we recognize the responsibility of local units of government to control the sale of hand guns and to make whatever provision seems to be adequate and prudent to prevent them from falling into the hands of those who are not qualified to use them in terms of experience, or who have a history of criminal activity and mental instability indicating that the public welfare would not well be served by permitting them to own hand guns.

We believe that only the Federal Government has the authority-and we would approve the use of that authority-to control the interstate shipment of hand guns to people we believe should not have them, as defined in the previous paragraph. At the same time, we would protect those states permitting the possession of these weapons only after the issuance of a permit or examination deemed to be sufficient to determine whether or not the person receiving the gun was emotionally, morally and of sufficient age to assure society that these weapons would not be used against the general welfare.

In conclusion, the Grange is in a position to support legislation to provide reasonable protection for the general public, but we would be opposed to a general registration or licensing of all firearms by the Federal Government.

Mr. GRAHAM. What we have tried to do, and what we recognize that both you and Senator Hruska are trying to do, is to find this balance between what is generally considered the constiutional right to own and bear arms and the absolute necessity in terms of rural areas which we represent, and some responsibility being assumed for the traffic in handguns for which there is no other practical purpose except in the commission of a crime.

They could be used by self defense, and by police officers. But in general this is the thing that has worried us the most.

I would be frank to say that what both you and Senator Hruska are trying to do is well within the area of the Grange's interests.

There are two areas-one especially that I am interested in here. that I do not think either of you do quite as well as ought to be done. Although in S. 1 you mention mental defectives, there is not much said about how to keep these guns out of the hands of mental defectives.

Chairman DODD. That is a real problem, Mr. Graham.

Mr. GRAHAM. I recognize it is.

Chairman DODD. It is awfully hard to write language. I think you have a good point. It has troubled me and it has troubled Senator Hruska and others.

Mr. GRAHAM. Just observe what has happened in this community the last few years we have had three instances where women have been discharged from mental institutions and almost immediately went and got a gun and shot their whole family.

This is the type of the abuse of the handgun privilege that I think ought to be covered in some way-perhaps in the affidavit type of thing that Senator Hruska has this could be covered there, too. This person who said they were under treatment, or had been under treatment for a mental illness for a period of time, who their doctor was