tem, not of taxation, but of confiscation But if he had great doubts, as to the propriety of pledging the war taxes to the ful extent proposed by the noble lord, he had still stronger doubts as to the data, on which the plan was found. ed. He had supposed, that during the whole period of 20 years, the war expences would not exceed 32 mil lions annually. But he ought to have taken into the account, the subsidies that might be wanted, and the de. preciation of money that might be wanted. --That lord H. P. imposed no new taxes for the first three years, was a measure of which Mr. Long highly approved. For by this means, relief would be afforded to the people, and taxation might be had recourse to afterwards, if this should be necessary. This circumstance would have the best effect too, on the permanent taxes. If, therefore, this period of respite had been extended to five years, he could have had no objection to the plan. The noble lord, in the mean time, might have observed the progress of the sinking fund, of the war taxes, and of the permanent taxes, and have borrowed upon these, as he should ind it expedient. But to take a period of 20 years, and to proceed on the supposition that 32 millions only would be required for the war expenditure, was to legislate for futurity, on grounds the most uncertain and erroneous that could be conceived.

Mr. Tierney said, that lord H. P.'s plan was not intended to legislate for 20 years, it merely held out the prospect of what might be done in 20 years, certain data being allowed. It did not tie up the hands of the legislature from adopting such alterations as circumstances might render

necessary. As to the depreciation of money, if there was any mode better than another for preventing the de preciation of money, it was, to pre vent any additional taxation. The house then went into a committee.

Mr. Rose, with many calcula tions and details, contended that lord H. Petty's plan, not only had a direct tendency to interrupt the progress of the old sinking fund, in paying off the present debt, but anticipated our resources instead of providing new ones; and that, in the course of its operation, it would have the effect of diminishing the sinking fund, and increasing, to an immense amount, the capital of the debt. A moderate and reasonable allowance for unforeseen expen. ces, would unavoidably increase the supplementary loans, and involve a necessity of imposing taxes to a con siderably larger amount than the noble lord had led the house to expect. His entreaty, however, to the noble lord was, not that he would relinquish his plan, nor even that he would at present make any alteration in the detail of it: but, only to limit the experiment of it to the present year, which would an swer all his purposes completely and effectually, and afford him and his majesty's other subjects leisure to consider it more fully themselves, and to advise with others, as well as to the public, to understand it bet ter than they now do.

Lord Henry Petty, in the course of a further explanation, and vindi cation, at great length, of his own plan, particularly where it was opposed to lord Castlereagh's, depre cated and protested against the opinion that what had been raised as necessary to the prosecution of war, should be levied and rendered

perma

permanent in a peace establishment; and asked what substitute could be found for his plan? How could the same relief be afforded by a system that should every year make a great addition to the permanent taxes? It was impossible to stop taxation otherwise than by mortgaging the war taxes. He had in contemplation a measure from which a very great accession to the public revenue might be expected, namely, the prevention of smugg'ing, by making the revenue-officers participate in the benefit of seizure, which they did not at present.

With a view to this object, a large peace-establishment would be highly beneficial: and if chargeable in one view, it would be beneficial on the whole. Among ad. vantages of his plan, he stated that it was peculiarly calculated to keep up the price of stocks, and down the price of provisions; or at least to prevent those fluctuations in prices, which so mischievously tended to depreciate the value of money. It was in the first of these advantages, he said, the certainty it afforded to the stock-holder, that he might go where he pleased to a good market, that the great henefit of his plan consisted. Lord Castlereagh observed, that lord H. Petty had that night, in express terms, admitted that bis system was founded on a prin. ciple of rais ng money upon a com. pound interest, though he contend. ed for the advantage of a compound benefit. He repeated, that lord P.'s pan would increase the pub ic debt ninety mi lions. He contended, that lord P.'s system of double loans and compound interest wou d on y ead to bankruptcy and ruin. Mr. Giles undertook to prove the existence of a fundamental error of immense magmade, that pervaded the whole of

lord C.'s system, arising from his omission to make any account of the accumu'ating interest of the sum to be borrowed. Mr. Davie Giddy considered lord H. P.'s plan as pos sessing all the physical and moral powers necessary for the attainment of its object. It was correct in all its parts; allowance being made for any thing that might bereafter im. pede the operations of the machi nery.-The resolutions were agreed to and reported Thursday, Febru ary 19; when, the order of the day being moved by lord H. Petty,

Sir James Pulteney (from the fact, that the price of stocks was at its highest, when there was scarcely any sinking fund, namely in 1790, when the 3 per cents were at 96,) drew the inference that the price of stocks was not in proportion to the sinking fund. The best se curity for keeping up the price, he said, was the quantity of capital to be invested in stock. It was agreed that the accumulation of the sinking fund should stop some time. He thought it should stop now. The accumulation of debt woud thus be prevented, and the situation of the stock ho der not deteriorated. He gave notice that he had to propose a plan of finance, which, on an ac curate comparison, he thought would be found preferable to that of lord H Petty. By this, he said, a great accumulation of debt would be avoid ed, and the war taxes preserved un touched. Even on the plan of tak ing the war taxes, the system which he had to propose was preferable to that of the noble lord's.

Mr. H. Thornton deprecated e qually the continuance of heavy tax. ation, and the immediate invasion of the sinking fund: on which account he was inclined to approve lord H.

Petty's

1

Petty's plan; to which, indeed, the most maturely weighed of the plaus on the other side, very nearly ap. proached. As to lord C.'s plan, he charged it with extreme inaccuracy on the same ground, on which it had been before severely attacked by Mr. Giles. It was unpardonable, he said, to delude the people with statements representing the charges of the new system as comparatively burthensome, and to exclude, from one of the plans compared, all consideration of accumulating in. terest. In general, he urged, as lord H. P. had also done, that lord C.'s plan invaded the security of the stock-holder, by taking the excesses of the sinking fund, without offering any compensation. The de. bate, in which, the speakers were Mr. Johnstone, Mr. Bankes, Mr. Rose, Mr. Corry, Mr. Perceval, lord Henry Petty, lord Castlereagh, Mr. Huskisson, Mr. Vansittart, and Mr. Canning, was continued till a very late hour. But nothing of importance was stated on either side, that had not been, in many instanees, stated and urged before in the preceding part of the debate, or in the previous stages of the business. The question being loudly called for, the resolutions were read a second time, and leave given to bring in bills agreeably to the resolutions.

April 13. The house having re. solved itself into a committee on the Loan interest bill, the new Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, that he had no objections to the interest of the loan being secured according to lord il. P.'s plan for the present year, but wished to avoid pledging the house to approve of any part of that plan for the future. A simi. lar declaration was made in, the YOL. XLIX.

house of lords, April 23, by lord Hawkesbury, the new secretary of state for the home department.

On the 3d of March, sir James Pulteney moved his resolutions on finance, pursuant to his former no. tice. He did not propose to enter on any detailed observations on his plan, til his calculations should be before the house; and should, for the present, content himself with shewing that a considerable saving would accrue without any inconve nience whatever. He proposed to take advantage of the war taxes during the war, and to mortgage them only at the end of the war, and then to charge the war debt upon the war taxes. By this plan, there would be a smaller amount of permanent debt, and a larger sink, ing fund created, than by the new one proposed by lord H. Petty. By this mode of finance, the supple mentary loans would not be felt during the war; and the amount of the war loan would be but 11 millions annually; the intercst of which he proposed to provide for, in part, out of the proceeds of the sinking fund.-Sir James concluded with moving the ten following resolu tions, which were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed :

1. "That in the new plan of fi. nance, it is proposed to mortgage, during each year of war, a certain portion of the war taxes, to provide for the payment of the interest and sinking fund of part of the loan, which shall be made in that year; and also to provide what shall be further wanted for the public service by a supple. mentary loan.

2.

That, the war expendi ture being stated at 32,000,000l. it will be necessary, in addition to H

the

the war taxes unpledged, to make loans in the first year to the amount of 12,000,000. in order to meet that expenditure, and loans to a larger amount in cach subsequent year.

3. "That if no part of the war taxes were to be pledged, a loan of 11,000,000l. annually, would be sufficient for this purpose.-That the amount of the present sinking fund is 8,331,7097., and therefore the annual interest of a loan to that amount might be provided, by appropriating for that purpose the interest of debt redeemed annually without causing any diminution in the present amount of that fund. That the interest of 2,668,2912. be. ing the difference between the present amount of the sinking fund, and the sum of 11,000,000l., with the usual sinking fund of one per cent. upon the nominal capital, would be 177,8861. per annum, supposing the 3 per cents. to continue at 60: and that if it should at any time be thought expedient to appropriate for the interest of such sum, viz. 2,668,2917., a part of the interest redeemed by the operation of the sinking fund within the year, there would be on that account, a reduction of such sinking fund in cach year to the amount of 133,4181. That the employment of a consider able sum in the purchase of stock, af successive periods throughout the year, under the provisions which now regulate the purchase of stock by the commissioners for the redemption of the national debt, has a tendency to keep up the price of the funds, and is consequently, in the time of war, of advantage both to the public and to the stockholder.

4. That the sinking fund may in each year, be carried to the amount

proposed for such year in the new plan, by making a supplementary loan equal to the amount of the dif ference between the sinking fund, as it would otherwise stand for such year, and the amount proposed in such plan for the purpose of supply. ing that difference.

5. That such supplementary loan, when added to the sinking fund, by reducing an amount of interest equal to the charge of interest increas. ed by raising the same, it is obvious, that, whatever advantage might re sult from so large an increase of sinking fund, operating in the mar. ket, (if an increase to the amount proposed by the new pan, and wholly produced by adding to the loan of the year, can really be deem ed advantageous,) might equally be obtained by this mode, without any additional burthen to the public

6. That the smallness of the loan for the service of the year, in proportion to the sinking fund, must also have a tendency to keep up the price of funds.

7. "That this advantage will re. sult in a greater degree from the system of borrowing 11,000,000. only in each year, than by having recourse to the larger loans, which would be required for the service of each year under the new plan.

8. That this mode of providing for the war expenditure, would consequently be more advantageous to the public, and to the stockholder, than the new pian; and that if, upon the return of peace, a portion of the war taxes exactly equal to what would be pledged at the same period, by the new plan, were then to be pledged, to meet the annual charge of such portion of the total debt, as that amount of taxes would provide.

fer

for at an interest of 10 per cent., in. cluding the sinking fund upon the same, the remainder would be the permanent debt, leaving the present annual charge of the portion of the debt so deducted and provided for, to be added to the amount of the permanent sinking fund.

9. "That the debt on the war taxes, being in the same manner deducted on the return of peace, from the total debt which may have thenbeen contracted upon the new plan, the remainder would be the permanent debt incurred by that plan, and that, the sinking fund of the war taxes being deducted from the total

sinking fund, which may have arisen within the same period, the remain. der would be the permanent sinking fund.

10. "That the operations of the mode now proposed, whi'st they afford some comparative advantage during the continuance of the war, would place the finances of the coun try in a much more favourable situation, at the restoration of peace, than those of the new plan, at whatever period peace may be concluded; and that at the termination of the period of 20 years, the comparison would be as follows: