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There were

esq.hon. T. Brand, F. Milnes, esq. N. Barnes. | examination of those who possessed the esq. W. Mills, esq. H. M. Ogle, esq.- best means of correcting any errors they Nominees: lord vis. Marsham, sir Thomas might contain, and to give an opportunity Turton-Mr. Hobhouse brought in the to them to come to parliament on the furGreenwich royal naval asylum bill, which ther consideration of this great subject, was read a first time.-Mr. Addington mo- with the most correct views, formed upon ved for copies of all the correspondence the most deliberate and extensive examibetween the governors of the West India nation. He hoped that, from these concolonies and others, since the year 1799, siderations, the house would grant him its relative to the importation of aves, which indulgent construction, to aid him in the were ordered accordingly.-Lord Howick task he had to perform in calling upon parmoved that the house be called over on liament to weigh the grounds upon which Tuesday next, which was agreed to.--Lord he was led to doubt of the solidity of the Temple brought in the Sierra Leone trans-system proposed by the noble lord. He fer bill, which was read a first time. was anxious that the difference between [NEW PLAN OF FINANCE. LORD him and the noble lord should not be ta CASTLEREAGH'S FINANCIAL RESOLU-ken to be greater than it was. TIONS.] Lord Castlereagh said, that in the nany views and many general principles in whole course of his parliamentary experi- the noble lord's statement, which he was ence, he had never felt more difficulty in not disposed to question: no principle was rising to address the house than he felt on more clear than the propriety of considerthe present occasion. He had to reviewing at what time, consistently with equity tothe new and extended Plan of Finance pro-wards the Stockholder, the produce of the posed by the noble lord opposite (lord sinking fund in a certain proportion, might Heury Petty), and to compare it in all its be diverted from its original destination, parts, and all its bearings, with the present and applied to the current service. If the system. When he considered with what Sinking Fund were allowed to proceed in deliberation the noble lord must have pre- its operation to the extinction of the whole pared his plan, and what able assistance he public debt, a new order of things would had to complete it, it was so disagreeable abe created, and the relative value of every thing for an individual like himself to state any thing in opposition to it, that nothing but an imperious sense of duty could warrant or induce him to offer himself to the house with that view. But the difference between his opinions and those maintained by the noble lord was so great, that there must be some material errors on one side or the other. Considering the advantages the noble lord had with respect to the meaus of viewing the subject, the errors were probably on his own side: but such was the conviction in his own mind of the truth of his own views of the subject, that he felt it a paramount duty to give the house an opportunity of comparing his opinions and calculations with those of the noble lord. He by no means wished to depreciate the noble lord's plan on any general grounds. The facts and the reasons upon which his opinions were formed he would state specifically to the house; and as he had felt it impossible to follow the noble lord opposite in the statement he had made on a former night, in a manner so creditable to him, from its clearness, it was his wish to follow the example of the noble lord and to leave his opinions open to the

thing as it stood now would be destroyed.
He therefore agreed with the noble lord,
that at some time parliament would be
called upon to consider what ought to be
the maximum of the Sinking Fund to be
applied to the extinction of the debt.
He was ready also to allow that the time
might come when the principle of rais-
ing the expences of war within the year
might become oppressive, and proper to
be got rid of. He was therefore pre-
pared to say, that a maximum might be
put to the Sinking Fund in time of peace,
and that even in time of war it might be
proper at some period to limit it, and to
apply the surplus to prevent war taxes,
from being pushed to the extreme.
difficult to say at what point all the bear-
ings of this question might be made to
meet. That was too nice a question for
him to discuss here. But the noble lord
having built his system upon calculations
involving that principle, it became the du-
ty of every man to examine the point, and
to state his motive for differing with the
noble lord, or for supporting him. He
was actuated, not by a wish to differ from
the noble lord, but by a fear, that the su

It was

which he had left wholly out of his calcu lation; and therefore, on this ground, he was sorry, without entering into the pros

perstructure which the noble lord's plan went to rear, was not built upon any solid foundation. Any one who looked to such an extended system of warfare as the pre-pect of 20 years, that the noble lord kad sent, must be convinced, that it would be calculated for the present circumstances unwise not to prepare ourselves to follow only. There were at the present time very it to an indefinite length. He was not dis strong motives for calculating on a different pleased that the noble lord had thought it plan. He thought it too much to calculate, right to go the length of calculation, upon that we could hold out for a war of 20 a probable duration of 20 years. But it years duration on an expenditure of 32 was too much to incorporate the calcula- millions, without any increase. But he tion of the expences of such a length of was more inclined to close with the noble time into arrangements to be adopted at lord's data, and to come to issue apen his present. It was impossible that parliament principles, leaving the particulars to be discould now provide for occasions so distant, cussed in the committee, where some friends and events so uncertain, without involving of his, better acquainted with the details of itself in infinite contradictions and embar- these subjects than he was, would make rassments. He therefore owned, he wished some observations upon them. He thought the arrangements for the present year had he had the means of proving, that the noble been built on an extensive view without lord's plan, if acted upon and carried fully calling upon parliament to adopt arrange-into execution, would be the means of inments of the same extent, which it was involving the country in great embarrassmenis, possible it could do with information or if not in compleat ruin, and what was still judgment. He admitted that unless data worse, in unnecessary and gratuitous ruin. were assumed, it was impossible to reason, He was sensible of the difficulty of the task or to arrive at any determination. But he had undertaken. But he trusted that what he feared was, that by the assumption the arguments with which he would endea. of fallacious data, far from being enabled vour to establish his opinions, would be reto proceed consistently, through a series ceived with indulgence and liberality, from of 20 years, we should be led into conti- the consideration that the points to which nual errors. The noble lord, in looking they referred deserved the fullest attention. to so small an expenditure as 32,000,0001. In examining the system of the noble lord, hoped not only to be able to cover that he hoped he should be permitted to sepa expenditure, but to provide for its inci- rate two questions, and that those who dental excesses. But the expenditure of heard him would keep them distinet. First, 32,000,000l. was an expenditure cut down Whether it was wise that any measures from 41,000,000l. and in putting it for- should now be adopted with respect to the ward as the probable amount of our war Sinking Fund? and, secondly, If it was expenditure, the noble lord should take consistent that such measures should now be care not to mislead the country as to the adopted, whether it was consistent that they amount of the burthens it would have to should be adopted with a view to their ta bear. He was sure the noble lord must king place 20 years hence? With respect have derived from the source with which to the appropriation at the present time, le was so honourably connected, principles he would not question the fact that the which would be very far from disposing Sinking Fund would afford in 1826, a surhim from rendering his countrymen the plus applicable as the noble lord stated, "Penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos." He The noble lord must allow, that the sum of was sure the noble lord would be sorry to 1,200,000l. to the charge of which, divest think that we should be prevented from co-ed from the War Taxes, this surplus would operating, even by money, to the exertions be then applicable, was in itself a fund on which might still be made for the deliver-which parliament might raise and night ance of the world from the common enemy. If the noble lord had looked to the average expence of the last war under this head; if he had looked to the average expences of the last four years in particular, he would have found that there was an anuual contingent charge of 3,700,000l. for expences,

charge loans, and on which any system of finance might be built, either the present actual system, or that proposed by the noble lord. The written explanation of the noble lord's plan stated, that, conformably to the mode in which the noble lord wished to raise the loans, the Property Tax of 11,500,000L

was as liable to those loans as any other old; 2dly, the relative amount of the public part of the War Taxes, but that was a fal- debt, and the effect of the operations of lacy. In charging War Loans, amounting the oid and the new plan upon it; 3dly, the to a capital of 210 million, the noble lord | relative qualities of both systems with rehad assumed that the War Taxes were ap- spect to the charges they would create in a plicable to the discharge of it. But parlia-period of 20 years; 4thly, the relative face ment was pledged to the country to repeal lity with which they would admit of mitiga the War Taxes in the event of peace. tions of the present burthens; and 5thly, Thus, the pledge of parliament was to be what relative state they would leave the violated in order to cover with all these finances in at the conclusion of their ope absorptions of the War Taxes, a principle rations. By a comparison of the quantity which must involve in ruin any individual of capital to be borrowed, the noble lord or any country that had recourse to it, bor- would feel how he would be best enabled rowing the interest of loans, and constitu- to provide for a war expenditure of ting that interest so borrowed into a perma- 32,000,000 1. and if it could be shewn that nent funded debt. He would ask the no- by any means a loan of 11,000,0001. could ble lord if he had considered the conse-be raised, without materially adding to our quences of borrowing any given sum in thrat present burthens, which loan, in addition to way, and compared them with the conse-21,000,000l. of war taxes, would make quences of borrowing the same sum under the desired sum of 32,000,000l. the adthe usual system. One of the resolutions he should have to submit would be founded on the principle of this comparison. If the abstract principle of the system had a disadvantage in this respect, the mischievous influence of the principle would extend to every part of the superstructure he had raised upon it. It was a grateful and a proud question for the house, if it could go into the consideration of the propriety of releasing the country from any part of its present burthens. But he wished the noble lord in that view also to consider his own system comparatively with that which he now proposed to substitute. The noble lord proposed to raise 12 millions by Loan, on an appropriation of ten per cent. and 1,200,000l. at 6 per cent. He wished to compare the effect of this with the effect of an operation of the same amount under the old system. The ultimate result would be, under the new system, a charge of 60,144,000l. before the period of extinc tion, while under the old system, the charge would be only 30,960,000l. Thus there would be a loss to the public of 29,184,0001. This manner of comparative consideration would prove the difference of the advantages with which the war could be carried on, on the old plan or on the new; and those points of comparison which he was about to submit were the only points he could discover. The complicated and extended scale of the noble lord could not be well comprehended without looking at its ultimate results. It would, therefore, be necessary to consider, first, the relative amount of the capital borrowed according to the new system and the

vantages of such a plan would be obvious, He would compare the amount of capital borrowed, at this rate, of eleven millions annually, with the amount of capital, at the same time under the noble lord's plan. At the rate of 11,000,000l. annually, only 210,000,0001. would be borrowed on the whole period of 20 years, without any of the embarrassing machinery of the noble lord's plan. According to the noble lord's plan, there would be raised in the same period by war-loans 210,000,0001.; and in Supplementary Loans, 204,200,0001. making a total of 416,200,0001. There was thus an excess of capital, by the operation of the new plan, of no less amount than 190,200,0001. exclusive of 82,000,0001 borrowed on the war taxes, and redeemed within the period. Certainly it was not a matter of indefinite importance and policy, whether such an immense sum should be raised beyond what would be necessary under accustomed and more simple arrangements, while the whole of the wartaxes would be absorbed at the end of 14 years, and the whole 32 millions would be to be raised without any aid from them. There was little room to doubt that a necessity for going into the market for a loan of such vast amount would in a few years have as great an effect in destroying credit and capital as that anticipated by the noble lord from the unlimited operations of the Sinking Fund, and the extinction of the whole public debt. Thus the new plan was injurious, not only in respect to the great accumulation of capital borrowed, but also in respect to the vast change it was calcu

and intanglements into which his own plan
led him. It would upon more mature
consideration appear to the noble lord a
strange option to have prefered borrowing
upon a double system, rather than to pur-
sue the simple one that had been hitherto
used. It would be satisfactory, he hoped,
to the noble lord to find, the country might
be relieved without embarrassing the war
taxes, and that the 13,800,0l. which he
proposed to appropriate to the Supple-
mentary Loans to that object. This Sup-
plementary Loan began at so low an a-
mount as 200,000l. It seemed to be in-
tended as a sort of small charge for the
War Taxes; but when it would haye
reached its 14th year, this little gentleman
would have out grown its parent, and would
have amounted to 20,000,0007.
whole amount of the average want at the
end of ten years, would be but 7,733,000l.
There were to meet this Ways and Means
to the amount of 3,200,000l. Thus there
would be to be provided only a Loan of
4,500,000%.

The

according to the present system, or applied to the mitigation of the public burthens, in any other manner. So might the 683,0927. of annuities likely to fall in in the 20 years. So might the new taxes of 292,000l. anuually on an average, or 2,051,000l. on the whole proposed to be raised by the noble lord's plan, between the third and the tenth year of his series. These sums altogether making 13,856,8617. were equally applicable to the present system, or to any other, as they were to that of the noble lord. As applied to the charges of the Supplementary Loans, amounting to 14,296,3887. this amount of Ways and Means of 13,856,000l. left a deficiency of 440,3887. As applied to the charges of annual loans of 11,000,0007. for 20 years under the present system, being 14,656,6607. it left a deficiency of 809,7991. Deducting from this deficiency of 809,7991. the deficiency, under the new plan in the application of the same Ways and Means to the Supplementary Loans only, there would remain a difference of It would be madness, after only 369,4117.; and that was the whole the facility of provision he had shewn, to consideration for which our taxes were go to the Jews to borrow, and to find the mortgaged and alienated. It was an insult interest of the Loans. In 1816, the Sinkto the country, which had so manfully ing Fund would not only be capable of borue up against the difficulties of the time, furnishing the aid now looked for from it, and had burthened itself with war taxes in but also large sum in addition. Adorder to prevent any accumulation of debt ding, therefore the average annual want of in war time; it was a reproach to it to im- 400,000l. to the loan of the year, and agine for a moment, that, however desirous carrying the interest and Sinking Fund of may be to be relieved from the rigour of it, amounting to 33,000l. to be advanced its present hardships, it would seek such a out of the Consolidated Fund to be repitiful relief at the expence of so great an placed by the Sinking Fund as soon as it ultimate sacrifice; it was an insult to sup- should afford surplus applicable to this pose, that the country would rather suffer purpose, the whole difficulty would be met. their war taxes to be cosumed by war Thus instead of 204,000,000l. of Suppleloans, rather than prevent that evil, rather mentary loan, only 4,500,000l. would be than charge itself with additional taxes, to added to the gross amount of the permathe amount of 369,4117. which with the nent debt, and only an amount of 33,000l. Ways and Means appropriated by the no-interest and Sinking Fund, to the permanent ble lord's plan to the Supplementary Loans merely, would enable the country to sustain a War Expenditure of 32 millious. It had never been considered as part of the duty of those who sat on that side of the house, to propose Financial Plans, and those who ventured to propose such plans wandered from their proper line; but when he came forward to dispute the System of Finance proposed by the noble lord, he thought he could do no less than point out another plan, which would enable the noble lord to meet the difficulties of the time without any of the embarrassments

it

There was an

charge. The whole of the complicated
machinery of the noble lord's plan, raised
story after story, and crowned with cum-
brous scaffolding, which threatened to fall
and crush the country with its ruins, would
thus be dispensed with.
other principle, which might, as it ap-
peared to him, be applied to the object of
the noble lord, namely, that when the
amount of the Sinking Fund should exceed
the interest of the unredeemed debt, no
provision should be made by new taxes for
the interest of the loan, but that it should
be provided for out of the interest of the