Mass no. Con ay. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pa no. Del. ay. Md divd Va no. N. C. no. S. C. ay Geo. no. Gen! Pinkney then moved that the 1st branch be elected by the people in such mode as the Legislatures should direct; but waved it on its being hinted that such a provision might be more properly tried in the detail of the plan. ye Λ On the question for election of the 1st branch by the people” Massay. Con ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. Pa ay. Del. ay. M div V ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay Geo. ay. Election of the 1st branch "for the term of three years," considered Mr Randolph ["was sensible" stricken out] moved to strike out, "three years" " and insert "two years" he was sensible that annual elections were a source of great mischiefs in the States, yet it was the want of such checks agst the popular intemperance as were now proposed, that rendered them so mischievous. He would have preferred annual to biennial, but for the extent of the U. S. and the inconveniency which would result from them to the representatives of the extreme parts of the Empire. The people were attached to frequency of elections. All the Constitutions of the States except that of S. Carolina, had established annual elections. Mr Dickenson. The idea of annual elections was borrowed from the antient usage of England, ["which is mu" stricken out] a country much less extensive than ours. He supposed biennial would be inconvenient. He preferred triennial: and in order to prevent the inconveniency of an entire change of the whole number at the same moment, suggested a rotation, Mr Elseworth was opposed to three years. supposing that even one year was preferable to two years. The people were fond of frequent elections and might be safely indulged in one branch of the Legislature. He moved for 1 year. Mr Wilson being for making the 1st branch an effectual representation of the people at large, preferred an annual election of it. This frequency was most familiar & pleasing to the people. It would be not more inconvenient to them, than triennial elections, as the people in all the States have annual with which -cide. He meetings ["at which" stricken out] the election of the National representatives might be made to coincide. did not conceive that it would be necessary for the Nat! Legisl: to sit constantly; perhaps not half-perhaps not one fourth of the year. So Union Λ apprehensive Λ M Madison was persuaded that annual elections would be extremely inconvenient and apprhensive that biennial would be too much he did not mean inconvenient ["to the" stricken out] to the electors; but to the representatives. ["It would be too much to expe" stricken out] They would have to travel seven or eight hundred miles from the distant parts of the ["Union" stricken out]; and would probably not be allowed even a reimbursement of their expenses. Besides, ["all the" stricken out] none of those who wished to be re-elected would remain at the seat of Governm! ["in" stricken out] confiding that their absence would not affect them. The members of Cong had done this with few instances of disappointment. But as the choice was here to be made by the people themselves who would be much less complaisant to individuals, and much more susceptible of ["the" stricken out] impressions from the presence of a ["than the Legislatures had been" half erased] A Rival candidate, it must be supposed that the members from the distant States would travel backwards & forwards at most Λ who least as often as the elections should be repeated. Much was to be said also on the time requisite for new members ["of which the Legisl wch" stricken out] would always form a large proportion, to acquire that knowledge of the affairs of the States in general without which their [“duty" stricken out] could not be usefully discharged. trust Λ Mr Sherman preferred annual elections, but would be content with biennial. He thought the representatives ought to return home and mix with the people ["in every" stricken out]. By remaining at the seat of Gov! they would acquire habits of the place which might differ from those of their Constituents. the Λ Col. Mason observed that the States [illegible word stricken out] being differently situated such a rule ought to be formed as would put them as nearly as possible on a level. If elections were annual the middle States would have a great advantage over the extreme ones. He wished them to be biennial; and the rather as in that case they would coincide with the periodical elections of S. Carolina as well as of the other States. Col! Hamilton urged the necessity of 3 years. there ought to be neither too much nor too little dependence, on the popular sentiments. The checks in the other branches of Govern! would be but feeble, and would every auxiliary principle that need The British House of Commons were elected septennially, yet the democratic spirit of ye Constitu could be interwoven. Frequency of elections tended to make tion had not ceased Λ the people listless to them; and to facilitate the success of little cabals. This evil was complained of in all the States. lately In Virga it had been found necessary to force the attendance & voting of the people by severe regulations. On the question for striking out "three years" Massts ay. Cont ay. N. Y. no. N J. divd Pa ay. Del. no. M no. Va ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. was then The motion for "two years." inserted nem. con. The clause "to receive fixed stipends to be ["paid" stricken Λ out] paid out of the Nation! Treasury" considered. out Λ M: Elseworth, moved to substitute payment by the States [illegible word stricken out] of their own Treasurys: observing that the manners of different States were very different in the Stile of living and in the profits accruing from the exercise of like talents. What would be deemed therefore a reasonable compensation ["by" stricken out] some States, in others would be very unpopular, and might impede the system of which it made a part. in Mr Williamson favored the idea. He reminded the House of the prospect of new States to the Westward. They would be poor-would pay little into the common Treasury—and would have a different interest from the old States. He did think A not therefore that the latter ought to pay the expenses of the men who would be employed in thwarting their measures & interests. M: Ghorum, wished not to refer the matter to the State Legislatures who were always paring down salaries in such a manner as to keep out of offices men most capable of executing the functions of them. He thought also it would be wrong to fix the compensations by the constitutions, because we could not venture to make it as liberal as it ought to be without exciting our enmity agst the whole plan. Let the Nat Legisl: provide for their own wages from time to time; as the State Legislatures do. He had not seen this part of their power abused, nor did he apprehend an abuse of it. of the people Mr Randolph feared we were going too far, in consulting popular prejudices. Whatever respect might be due to them, ["when" stricken out] in lesser matters, or in cases where they formed the["ir" stricken out] permanent character, he thought it neither incumbent on nor honorable for the Convention, to sacrifice right & justice to that consideration. If the States were to pay the members of the Nat! Legislature, a dependence would be created that would vitiate the whole System. The whole nation has an interest in the attendance & services of the members. The Nation! Treasury therefore is the proper fund for supporting them Mr King, urged the danger of ["referring" stricken out] creating a dependence on the States by leavs to them the ["appointment" stricken out] payment of the members of the Nat! Legislature. He supposed it w be best to be explicit as to the compensation to be allowed. A reserve on that point, or a reference to the Nat! Legislature of the quantum, would excite greater opposition than any sum that would be actually necessary or proper. both PA Mr Sherman contended for referring the quantum and the payment of it to the State Legislatures. Mr Wilson was agst fixing the compensation as circumstances would change and call for a change of the amount. He thought it of great moment that the members of the Nat! Gov! should be left as independent of the State Gov's in all respects. as possible A compensations for the Mr Madison concurred in the necessity of preserving the Nat! Gov independent on the State Gov but at the same time A by the constitution ["still" stricken out] approved of fixing them ["compensation" stricken out], |