tion of the prince regent were merely arrived in Ireland, This was a most unlucky coincidence; for the prince was in the highest degree popular in that country, and was considered to be strongly at tached to the interests of his Irish subjects. For this measure, how ever, there was not the smallest ground to suppose that ministers had the countenance of his royal hhness. Whether ministers were nt or wrong in the adoption of t severe measure, in the present state of his information upon that sect, he should be very sorry to tike upon him to decide; but it was necessary that the house should have means to enable them amply to discuss the subject. The honourable gentleman then moved for extracts of such dispatches as had been received by the secretary of state, from the lord-lieutenant of Ireland, relative to the putting in execution the convention act.-On the question being put that these pares be produced,

sir. Yorke, although he could not agree entirely with the speech of the honourable gentleman who had just sat down, said that he entirely ged with him in the concluding Pet of that speech, where he enlarged upon the propriety of maning an anxiety for Ireland; for no man more cordially agreed with the honourable gentleman than Limself in the necessity of displayng such an anxiety. Before he prended to advert to more gene ral topics, he would state to the has the facts which had come to teknowledge of his majesty's miRoters. Ail that they knew was, thin consequence of a paper is Red by a Mr. Hay, who calls himif secretary to the catholic Committee-he knew not whether

1811.

this was genuine or not-but in consequence of this paper it was thought advisable to issue the circular letter now before the house. This paper carried on the face of it a violation of the existing laws of Ireland. The convention act is declared to be expressly enacted for the purpose of preventing the assembling of delegates from any unlawful assembly, who are de clared guilty of a high misdemeanour. Looking therefore at that letter, he maintained that the government of Ireland could not have acted otherwise than they did, without admitting persons openly to violate the established law of the country. But ministers were not in possession of all the information necessary to enable the house to judge of this measure in all its points; and therefore, if all the papers moved for were granted on the present occasion, they would not answer the purpose. therefore averse to the motion, because these papers are insufficient,, and because it would be necessary to wait for still further papers, be fore the house could come properly to a discussion of the subject. Upon that ground he gave his negative to the motion.

He was

Mr. Grattan said, the govern ment of the country should watch, in a particular manner, over the interests of the catholics of Ireland, because the catholics had no representatives in that house; because they ought to be considered in the light of the wards of this legislature. The house ought, therefore, to watch over their rights and interests, and to show their tender attachment to those rights on every occasion. The communication be. tween the legislature and the catholics should be kept as open as

H

possible,

possible. It was not merely desirable that parochial communication should be kept open-it was not merely desirable that county communication should be kept open-but it was desirable that the house should have every opportunity of knowing the general sense of the catholic body. It was therefore highly desirable that a bad law-a law generated in spleenfor that was its best justification, though sometimes it might be pretended that circumstances ma le it necessary to be resorted to: -should be resorted to as little as possible. It was the duty of the ministers of the crown, and it was the duty of that house, to construe that act in as favourable a manner as they could, and they were called upon to be as favourable as they possibly could to the acts of the catholic body. Now in order that a petition should convey the sentiments of the catholics, it was not sufficient that it was subscribed by a few indiv'duals of that body-it was necessary that it should express the general sense of the catholics,--and how was that general sense to be ascertained but by delegation? The convention act, therefore, went against the most essential rights of the subjects of these kingdoms, and, if literally construed, went to cut off all communication between par. liament and the people. This was particularly the case with regard to Ireland since the union; for many channels of communication, which were then open between the people of that country and the legislature, were now almost shut up. He contended that the right of petition should be eajoyed in the fullest, freest, and amplest manner, so as to afford means to collect the general sense of the people. In his

judgement, such popular meetings, so conducted, were not the cause of just alarm. It was well that opportunities should exist for the mind of the people to evaporate. The aspirations of active genius should not be subjected to eternal control, nor the high mettle of the Irish youth condemned to waste itself in indolence and tavern enjoyments. Much did he see of public spirit in the catholics of Ireland; much indeed of vehemence, but of a vehemence that threatened no evil consequences. The fire should be kept in its proper orb, and it would emit a salutary light and heat, without bursting into conflagration. Certainly nothing had been stated to justify the retrospective operation of the convention act; and if ministers were determined to persevere in their impolitic system, he held it to be the duty of the house to interpose in favour of the people, and assert the right of the Irish subject to complain of grievances. it remained for ministers to show, that to destroy the catholic committee was necessary to prevent a national convention in that country. It was the undoubted privilege of the subject to be sometimes clamorous and violent in the maintenance of his rights: he would not say it was his right to be foolish also; but he was sure, that to suppress any mischief that could be apprehended on that score, the worst plan was that of a harsh exercise of the power and authority of government. Оссаsional ebullitions of warm feelings did not call for its chastising arm; they were the symptoms of a free spirit, the calentures, if he might use the word, of a lofty mind, harmless when gently treated. He believed, however, that Mr. Pole's

letter

eter might admit of something e an hypothetical form as to the existence of a tumultuous dispositon, and he trusted, therefore, that muensters would instantly adopt and ction the construction. You have," said Mr. Grattan, "disquaLed a large portion of your fellow. sebjects, who pay your taxes in support of your government. At a perod peculiarly unfortunate, for needlessly increasing your difficulties, you stigmatize a great part of your population, who have fought and bled with you in defence of the liberties and constitution of the contry. While you pursue this em, depend on it distempers will not cease in Ireland! that dangers and commotions will continue to attend your erring policy. You have degraded the catholic below the level of the community, and with the buoyancy of nature he will rise to assert that claim to equal rights which he feels is not less founded on reason than on justice." Above all, he recommended moderation and forbearance to the government; the cause of emancipation must ultimately triumph, and those who had accompanied Britons to military glory, would one day vote and legislate in their Koety. The honourable member concluded a very eloquent speech by doing justice to the administratha of the lord lieutenant.

Mr. Parnell and sir John Newpart spoke on the same side; geeral Loftus and sir Henry Montgomery justified the conduct of

government.

The chancellor of the exchequer contended, that there was nothing un the part of government which justified the charges then brought gamst them by the two gentlenen on the other side. The Irish government had adhered to the law,

and felt the necessity of its exercise when the violation of that law was likely to be attended with the most dangerous effects. With respect to the immediate question, namely, the conduct of the Irish government in putting into effect the convention law, he begged to say, that whether the intended meeting of delegates was catholic or protestant, the Irish government would have felt it to be its duty to have pursued the same course. It was no new or unnatural course that they assumed. The proceeding against which their vigilance was directed, was an offence against law; and surely he might assume, that the mere establishment of legal proceedings against the violators of the law, was no ground of parliamentary inquiry. The house had only to refer to the letter of the catholic secretary, and it was impossible morefully to conceive or to describe the duties and effects of a representative body. And he would ask, whether a body of 358 persons, under the eye of government, thus collected, assuming such a character as they had lately done, were not alone an object of vigilance, but ought to be met by the law which their proceedings went to violate? It was far different from the meetings of 1793 or 1796; it went to establish in Ireland a deliberative representative body. There remained only to observe, that there was no impediment by the decision of the government given to the right of petitioning.-On the contrary, by keeping that right within its due bounds, that security was strengthened which might be endangered by transgression. The prayer of the catholics would now come before the house with the same character, authority, and importance as it had formerly done.

Mr. Whitbread made a very able H 2 reply

reply. Mr. Fuller vindicated the measures of government, which Mr. Hutchinson and Mr. Ponsonby maintained to be wholly inde

fensible. The house divided-Ayes 43, Noes 80-Majority against the production of papers, 37.

on the Printers' Penalties.

FE

EB. 26.-Mr. Whitbread rose and spoke to the following effect: Mr. speaker, in pursuance of the notice which I have previously given, I rise to submit a motion to this house, involving in its result considerations in which, I conceive, the feelings and interests of the country are materially involved. For those feelings and interests it is of peculiar importance that this house should ever entertain a strict regard in the question to which my motion shall advert, it is most peculiarly due. For I think it will be allowed, that whatever may have been the character of our political distinctions, history will at least admit, when the party heat of our day shall be consigned to the same silence and obscurity as the party contentions of preceding times-when he who shall write for the instruction of posterity is removed from the influence of contemporary prejudices, and therefore

best calculated to decide with im partiality-such historian will be forced to acknowledge that, notwithstanding any unjust impu tation, no people ever evinced, for a series of years, a more loyal feeling of affection and devotion towards the person or government of the present king than the people of this country. If we look back to the last twenty-five years of his majesty's reign, we shall find that this is a love and attachment not limited to the impressions of his earlier life, or arising from the prosperity of his councils, but acquir ing additional force in proportion to his personal infirmities, and strengthening with his decay. If, then, the people of this country have uniformly felt the highest interest in the health of their sovereign-if in the days of his strength they have rejoiced, and mourned with heartfelt sorrow during the visitation of his distress and suffer