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oreign to its nature, Friend as he was to the union with Ireland, and unwilling as he was to let his fears and alarms upon the fubject deter him from its adoption, yet he wifhed they had not brought forward the prefent articles out of their regular order, as they might then have had the benefit of hearing at the bar information from manufacturers, and others converfant in the trade of Great Britain. Without fuch information he profeffed himself unable to form any opinion. His lordship next made fome remarks on the union with Scotland, and contended that the cafe was very different with refpect to Scotland and England, as Scotland and England had no debts to prevent an entire union of interefts. In the prefent moment, Great Britain had a debt of 460 millions, paying feventeen millions of intereft, and Ireland twenty-five millions; from which he contended that it was impoffible to expect, under fuch circumftances, a complete union of advantages and burthens fhould take place. After making fome more general remarks with respect to the fituation of Ireland, he concluded by faying, that he trufted that the refolutions would have the fulleft difcuffion, and that they fhould not be confidered as unalterable because they came from Ireland. Lord Auckland said, he could not fee the propriety of the oppofition now ftarted. If noble lords reconfidered the paffage now quoted, they would find the words carried the remedy with them; it was there ftated "a general tax, if fuch fhould be impofed."

After this the amendment was negatived.

Earl Fitzwilliam then propofed another amendment, and faid it was thee fence of the British conftitution,

that every tax was to fall upon thofe who had, agreed to impofe it, or on their conftituents; but the taxes which the imperial parliament might hereafter iinpofe on Ireland could not be felt by British reprefentatives. He therefore moved, that, for a certain time after the union, the taxes impofed on Ireland fhould be agreed to by the Irish members only, and thofe on Great Britain by British members only.

Lord Grenville made a fhort reply.

Lord Holland fupported the amendment, which, however, was negatived.

The earl of Caernarvon objected to that part of the article which ftated that the furplus accruing from the revenues of Ireland, after paying the feveral charges to which the country might be liable, fhould be applied to local purpofes,

Lord Grenville made a fort .reply.

Lord Caernavon faid, he fhould object to the claufe, if it were only. for its obfcurity.

Lord Grenville replied, that the obfcurity, if any, did not arife from the words of the claufe, but from the complication of objects.

This produced a fort converfation between lords Grenville, Auckland, and Darnly, when the claufe was read and agreed to.

On Monday, April 28, the committee was again refumed for the purpose of taking into confideration the refolutions of the two houfes of parliament of Ireland.

Lord Grenville then rofe, to open the fourth refolution to the committee, going through the feveral propofitions contained in it, in detail, and explaining the principles of each, and commenting upon them. His lordfhip faid, that it neceffarily arofe from the nature of

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the cafe, that in uniting the legiflatures of the two kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland, a certain portion of Irish members fhould be infufed into the British houfe of commous; that one hundred had been fixed on, and those apportioned, as flated in the refolution then upon their lordships' table, viz. two for each County of Ireland, two for the city of Dublin, two for the city of Cork, one for the univerfity of Trinity-College, and one for each of the thirty-one moft confiderable towns and boroughs. Here his lordfhip remarked, that in refpect to the union with Scotland, in the prefent inftance, the number of members from Ireland was proportionably greater, because reland had peculiar pretentions to indulgence and allowance, when he was called upon to give up her feparate legifJature. With regard to the twentyeight lords temporal of Ireland, who were propofed to have feats in that houfe, they were to hold their feats by the fame tenure with their lordships, viz. for life, which, he obferved, was an evident improvement on the fcheme of the union with Scotland; and, as it was intended that twenty-eight Irifh peers fhould be chofen by the members of their own body, there could be little doubt but that those noble

would be extinct as not to leave more than two lifts of candidate This, however, could not happen in the Irifh peerage, as a provifion was made, that it fhould never be reduced below one hundred, which would then leave nearly four lifts of candidates. The remaining peers would ftill, after all, enjoy all the privileges of peerage, but not fit or vote in that houfe, nor perhaps have the privileges of parliament, with the exception of fuch of them as fhould be elected, into the house of commons, who, by that election, loft all their privileges, retaining only their rank. This union differed from that with Scotland in respect to spiritual peers, of which the latter had none; but at the fame time that it was neceffary the church of Ireland fhould be reprefented, it was alfo defirable that perfons who had the extensive care of diocefes fhould be as much refident in them as poffible; and therefore it was propofed that two Irish bishops fhould be returned to the houfe of peers by rotation. His lordship next obferved, that it was provided in the refolution, "that any perfon "holding any peerage of Ireland "now fubfifting, or hereafter to be "created, fhall not be thereby dif 'qualified from being elected to "ferve for any county, city, or "borough in Great Britain, in the "houfe of commons of the united "kingdom; but that, fo long as any

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lords who were moft diftinguifbed by their talents, and were beft acquainted with the political interests of their country, would be the perfong returned to fit in that house." peer of Ireland fhall fo continue His lordship obferved, that by con- "to be a member of the houfe of tinuing those peers for life, there "commons, he thall not be enwould be no room for that cabal."titied to the privilege of peerage, and intrigue which might otherwife be infeparable from frequent elections. In the peerage of Scotland it might fo happen, though robably not during the lives of any of their lordships, that fo many

"nor be capable of being elected to "ferve as a peer on the part of "Ireland, or of voting at any fuch "election; and that he ball be "liable to be fued, indicted, pro"ceeded againft, and tried as a

"commoner,

"commoner, for any offence with "which he may be charged." This provifion, his lord hip conceived, could not be complained of, becaufe it was a voluntary matter, and it must depend on the confent of every Irish peer, if he chofe, for the fake of being returned to a feat in the houfe of commons, to fubmit to the ftipulated privation, and forgoe the privileges of peerage. Lord Mulgrave objected to that part of the fourth refolution relative to the peers of Ireland being permitted to fit in the houfe of commons of the united parliament, and be deprived of the privilege of peerage, and liable to be fued, indicted, proceeded againft, and tried as commoners. This part his lordhip reprobated in the ftrongest terms, as calculated to create infinite confusion, by blending peers of the realm with commoners, at once vitiating the blood of the nobility, and degrading thofe of high birth from their rank in fociety.

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In thofe few words, faid his lordfhip, was couched as much mifchief as it was poffible to combine in fo little language; and he fhould efteen himself unworthy of his rank and privilege, and ungrateful for the favours of the crown, if he did not oppose a scheme that went to the degradation of the peerage. Could any thing be more monftrous than to fee a peer one day bringing down bills to that bar from the house of commons, and the next day fitting and taking a part in the deliberations of their lord hips? The provifion in fome refpects was even futile; as an Irith peer had only to refign his other privileges in order to become a commoner, and refign his feat in the house of commons to become a candidate for the peerage. His lordship endeavoured, by feveral

comparifons, to fhow the inconfiftency of the propofition, and quoted Blackstone in fupport of hist opinion.

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The lord chancellor left the woolfack, and expreffed much furprife at what had fallen from the noble lord. He asked if any of their lordships, at any time of their lives, eftimated fo highly their nobility of blood, as to think it at all: vitiated by their mixing as legiflators with the gentry of England? The noble lord had faid, that it. would be a degrading thing to fee an Irish peer of the first rank come to that bar as a member of the house of commons decorated with ribbands, whilft the youngest Irish baron fat their lordships. For his part he faw nothing degrading in it, and it had fallen to his lot, when the junior baron of that houfe, to walk down to the bar to receive meffages from the eldeft fon of the premier duke of England, (the duke of Norfolk) and from Irish peers of higher rank than himself; but he never felt any embarraffinent in fo doing. What then was there in the fuperior nobility of Irish peers, that they fhould feel more degraded by: being members of the houfe of commons, than the eldest fons of British nobility? His lordfhip, after a few more obfervations of a fimilar nature, concluded by faying, he fhould vote for the words as they stood at prefent in the refolution,

Lord Mulgrave made a fhort reply: he faid he had not stated that the blood of peers and commoners was different, or that they were two diftinct fpecies of men. What the noble lord had faid with regard to the eldest fons of British peers now fitting in the houfe of commons was altogether inapplicable and inconclufive.

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The earl of Caernarvon faid, that he fhould have much lefs occafion to take up their lordships' time, after the objections fo fully ftated by the noble lord, (lord Mulgrave) to one part of this new fyftem of reprefentation, which had artfully been propofed, as if the interefts of Ireland had dictated it. He had liftened to the noble fecretary of ftate with all the attention his arguments deferved; and if the fubject which he fortified by his opinion could be fupported by argument, no perfon could more effectually eftablifh it. The noble lord fet out with expreffing his fatisfaction, that in fo arduous and import ant an undertaking as that of an union with Ireland, a precedent, fuch as that of Scotland, prefented itfelf as an example, which proved, that fo material an alteration could be effected without danger to the conftitution of the country: that the benefit of an union between disjointed parts of the empire might be acquired without trenching upon the principles, or altering the frame of the conftitution, which had fo defervedly met with the admiration of all writers on the fubject: he added an axiom certainly indifputable, but ingeniously worded, to confound all ideas of true reprefentation. He laid it down as indifputable, that both branches of the legiflature, lords and commons, reprefented the public intereft; and he might, with equal truth, have added the third branch, and indeed every individual in public office. He thould not concede, that the house of commons was lefs exclufively the perfonal reprefentatives of the commonalty, lefs peculiarly their political organ and voice, lefs the depofitory of their privileges and rights; nor that the upper Boufe confifted less of an hereditary

peerage, affociated to the heads of the church in fixed and undeviating fucceffion; nor that the king was lefs the fupreme fovereign, in whom the legislative and executive power united. That this well-poised government had all the advantages of which human infirmity is capa ble is certain; and had, as the noble fecretary obferved, drawn the admi ration of all writers. The fyftem of union proposed between Great Britain and Ireland fubverted this admirable fabric, and confounded all the principles by which it had been fo long fuftained. The commonalty of Great Britian were no longer to be a diftinct body, reprefented folely by delegates from their own body, but in a manner contrary to every principle of the conftitution. He reprobated, in the ftrongeft terms, the fabricators of this fyftem, and contended that they must have had fome private reasons for withing the fubverfion of our happy conftitution. His lordhip, however, moft earnestly wished the completion of the union with Ireland, from the perfuafion that the ftrength and profperity of the empire would be increased.

Lord Grenville said a few words after which the first propofition of the fourth refolution was then read.

Lord Radnor alfo made fome verbal obje&ions to it, which were anfwered by Lord Grenville.

Lord Mulgrave moved, that these words-" And every Irish peer, "fitting in the house of commons, "fhall be deprived of his privileges "as a peer, and shall be liable to be "fued as any commoner of Great

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Britain," be omitted. The house divided upon the queftion, that thefe words do ftand part of the refolution, when there appeared Contents 52-Non-contents 9.

Lord

Lord Darnly objected to that part of the refolution which regard ed the limitation of the peerage.

The house then divided on that propofition of the fourth article, which fays," that his majesty "fhall be at liberty to create one "Irish peerage for every three "that become extinct." Contents 50-Non-contents 7,

The other propofitions were read and agreed to without a divifon; and all further proceedings poftponed til Friday, May 2, when the house having, on the motion of lord Grenville, refolved itself into a committee,

Mr. Plumer, as counfel for certain petitioners against the commercial refolution, which permitted the exportation of British wool to Ireland, addressed their lordships at confiderable length, fetting forth the danger which that staple manufacture would incur from repealing the prohibiting acts against the exportation of raw materials. The houfe after this agreed to the refolution, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday, May 5, when the order of the day being read for the houfe to refolve itself into a committee of the whole houfe on the refolutions of the two houfes of parliament,

Lord Grenville called the attention of the committee to the fifth article of the refolutions, viz. that the church of that part of Great Britain called England and Ireland thall be united into one church. His lordhip explained the operation and tendency of this article, after which the question was put and the whole refolution agreed to.

Lord Grenville next called their lordships' attention to the fixth article of the union; and pointing out that all prohibitions and bounties on the export of articles, the

growth, produce, or manufacture of each country to the other, fhould ceafe and determine from the first day of January, 1801; and that the articles fhould thenceforth be exported from one country to the other, without duty or bounty, &c. When his lordfhip had gone through the articles that were enumerated, as intended, he took occafion to fay, that the little objection that had been offered on the part of the commercial and manufacturing interests to the propofed articles of union was a strong proof of the enlightened views of thofe concerned in thofe interefts; and that they confidered the union as a wife and beneficial measure to both countries.

Lord Grenville obferved, indeed, that one branch of manufacturers well merited the attention of the legislature, and was of confiderable importance in the fcale of our commerce, viz. the dealers in wool, and the manufacturers of cloth and coating. Thefe manufacturers had prefented petitions, and had been heard by their counfel at the bar of that house. But learned and able as the counsel were that were heard at the bar, and well informed as the witnesses appeared to be, he owned they had left no impreffion on his mind fufficiently powerful to show that there ought to be any alteration in the refolution then under confideration. The two great objections endeavoured to be established were, first, that there was not wool enough in Great Britain to fupply the increafed demand of the manufac turers; the other was, that the manufacturers would pafs over into Ireland under circumftances fo advantageous. With regard to the firft of thefe objections, he had always understood that the fupply

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